From ragnarok@pobox.com Mon Mar 24 17:24:16 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_5); 25 Mar 2003 01:24:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 61709 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2003 01:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2003 01:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2003 01:24:16 -0000 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18xdAZ-0006KD-00; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:24:04 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:24:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.intrex.net ([209.42.192.250]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18xdAS-0006K2-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 17:23:56 -0800 Received: from craig [209.42.200.67] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id AF8E3CA0152; Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:23:26 -0500 To: Subject: [lojban] Re: ancient clicks Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:23:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.67] X-archive-position: 4605 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ragnarok@pobox.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: "Craig" Reply-To: lojban-list@lojban.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >>I thought of proposing that some accented characters be added to the >>alphabet, >>to be used only in names, to indicate allophones. For instance, >>{tcomolunmas} >>could be written with a modified 'n' to indicate, to someone not familiar >>with the name, that it's pronounced as 'ng'. >But that would mean they are no longer allophones. The 'n' >in {tcomolunmas} should be pronounced just like the 'n' in >{lunma} would be pronounced. Whichever of the allowed >allophones is used by a given speaker, they should use the >same one for both words, and which one they use should >have nothing to do with the pronunciation of the word >in the language it was borrowed from. If one wants to retain >a foreign pronunciation, one should use foreign quotes, >not a lojbanized name. I think that pronouncing fully lojbanized >words according to the original of the borrowing would sound >wrong and affected. When most people refer in English to the Chinese capital, it comes out sounding like "bay-zhing". However, the Chinese say it as "pay-ching", though with no aspiration and with the ch a little farther forward than in English. However, using this pronunciation in English would often go unnoticed in a conversation, and there are people out there who choose to do so. Presumably, most jbopre would fully lojbanize a name, but if they were well-acquainted with the original version a few may choose to use a somewhat more authentic pronunciation. There is nothing worng with this, although I would object to little cues in the spelling telling people to do so.