From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Apr 17 12:32:31 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_5); 17 Apr 2003 19:32:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 50757 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2003 19:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2003 19:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2003 19:32:16 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 196F7I-0000s5-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:32:16 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 196F7C-0000rm-00; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:32:10 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 196F6y-0000rS-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:31:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F4F3224B for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:31:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp106.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.106]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BD83222F for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:31:20 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3E9F6445.2080700@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:34:45 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030313 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: any References: <200304160720.27171.phma@webjockey.net> <3E9D5924.4070909@bilkent.edu.tr> <200304161822.01809.phma@webjockey.net> In-Reply-To: <200304161822.01809.phma@webjockey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 4812 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: "robin.bcc" From: "robin.bcc" Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 16 April 2003 09:22, robin wrote: > >>It sounds odd to me too. What the writer seems to mean is that all >>Iraqi maps had to authorised before they could be published. "le datni >>sefkamni ze'upu crutro *ro* rakso tumcartu" implies that the Information >>Ministry authorised every single map that was made, which is unlikely, >>if not impossible (since "ro rakso tumcartu" includes not only maps of >>Iraq made by foreigners but also any map made by any Iraqi for any >>purpose; e.g. telling friends where the party is tonight). > > > No, it's a tanru, so it means whatever the sayer intends, as long as the > referent is a map having something to do with Iraq or an Iraqi. "ro rakso > tumcartu" could mean "all maps showing some or all of Iraq", or "all maps > made by Iraqis", or "all maps owned by Iraqis", or "all maps in Iraq". True - rather than "implies", perhaps I should have said "could be interpreted as". This is part of a general problem with meaning, reference and implication - a can of worms I won't open here (the same problem exists with "le" and its siblings: in one sense of "mean", "le ninmu" means "that which I call 'woman'" and in another it means "that hill that looks a bit like a woman"). robin.tr -- "A Perl script is "correct" if it gets the job done before your boss fires you." - Larry Wall Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin