Subject: [lojban] Re: Y+NAI is not grammatical; jbofi'e is not always right (was Re: ynai)

From: "Craig" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:10:20 -0400

>I didn't even realize BPFK stuff was going on (that's what I get
>for not paying attention I guess).

I actually find it rather irritating that I am the only one pushing for the
BPFK to act. We are letting the community down with our lethargy.

>No offense, but it makes me a tad nervous that you are being called
>the "shepherd" of nai (whatever that means), insomuch as you have
>been unabashedly in favor of the abomination "ka'enai".

I freely admit to being "unabashedly in favor of" ka'enai. I also promise
not to do anything underhanded to make it official. As Shepherd, it is my
job to encourage reasonable debate on any issues. This includes ka'enai,
which usage has accepted but the current baseline has not. It is absolutely
not my job to force my view onto the new baseline. If ka'enai is voted down,
then ka'enai is voted down. Your nervousness is understandable, though IMHO
misplaced, and I do not take any offense. However, I do hope for somewhat
more sophisticated discussion of it than simply calling it an abomination;
if you oppose my first proposal (which will be to officialize the purely
descriptive record I have posted) then I hope you will say why there should
be no ka'enai.

>Quick looking at the forum you just mentioned proves my nervousness
>well-founded:

Your nervousness would be well-founded if I, as Shepherd, had either the
power or the desire to force ka'enai into Lojban. I hope that it will be
discussed in a mature fashion, and as a much lower priority I hope that it
will be accepted. But if it is, it will be because that is what the BPFK
votes on, not what I push in. Also, note that what I have posted so far is
purely descriptive, and it is undeniable that ka'enai has been used quite a
lot. I was hesitant to put it into my record - I wanted to urge adding it,
sure, but I wasn't going to let that bias creep in to a descriptive
document - until I found it in Alice and Le Petite Prince, which are
generally seen as well-done translation projects which the whole community
had a chance to see as they were in progress and cry "Foul!" at all the
ka'enais. The community accepted the ka'enais. Besides, my first proposal,
where I will indeed include adding ka'enai to the grammar, also includes
removing joinai, which has never been used anywhere that I can find. The
descriptive record has not been tweaked to reflect my view; my view happens
to fit with that aspect of rather a lot of usage.