From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Apr 20 00:28:24 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_5); 20 Apr 2003 07:28:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 24411 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2003 07:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2003 07:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2003 07:28:24 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 1979FP-0002uk-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:28:23 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1979F9-0002uB-00; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:28:07 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:28:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu ([18.7.21.83]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1979Ex-0002tr-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:27:55 -0700 Received: from grand-central-station.mit.edu (GRAND-CENTRAL-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.82]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.12.4/8.9.2) with ESMTP id h3K7Rs6Q028150 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (MELBOURNE-CITY-STREET.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.86]) by grand-central-station.mit.edu (8.12.4/8.9.2) with ESMTP id h3K7RrDO004407 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torg.mit.edu (TORG.MIT.EDU [18.243.1.228]) ) by melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h3K7RrU8019900 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rob by torg.mit.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1979Es-0005vd-00 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:27:50 -0400 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:27:50 -0400 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: The art of place structure. (And how to destroy it.) Message-ID: <20030420072750.GB22705@mit.edu> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Is-It-Not-Nifty: www.sluggy.com User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i X-archive-position: 4867 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rspeer@MIT.EDU Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Rob Speer From: Rob Speer Reply-To: rspeer@MIT.EDU X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Sat, Apr 19, 2003 at 03:52:45PM +0000, eye_onus wrote: > I'll take your advice on that, then. I'm sure Lojbanists would > understand the 'fa' in 'mi klama sorcu fu le mi klama fa zo'e zo'e' > would mean 'the first /unfilled/ sumti place' and not 'the first > sumti place' in that context. Note that you don't need the "fa zo'e zo'e" at all. Any place that is left out is automatically "zo'e". I assume this is the reason you're using fa. "fa" actually always means the first sumti place, even if it's filled, and if it's filled twice it's treated like "and". "mi klama fa do" means "you and I go", but it's a rather obtuse way to say it. Why is that "sorcu" there? Do you mean that you go to the stockpile? In that case, you want to say "mi klama le sorcu"; you can't leave out articles. If you meant "store", as in "market", then "mi klama le zarci". So what you want to say is something like "mi klama le zarci fu le mi karce". Don't be intimidated by all these corrections, incidentally - if people didn't make mistakes and learn from them, there would be no new Lojbanists. -- Rob Speer