Subject: zo'e (was Re: The art of place structure)

From: "sshiskom" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 06:28:43 -0000

Rob Speer wrote:
>> Note that you don't need the {fa zo'e zo'e} at all.
>> Any place that is left out is automatically {zo'e}.

And eye_onus wrote:
> Yes, I understand that much. I was using {zo'e zo'e} as
> in "something something". Not as in
> {mi klama zo'e zo'e zo'e zo'e} is "I go" but as in
> {mi klama zo'e} to express "I go to (something)".
> Basically, I was using the word {zo'e} to the lojban for
> "something", or "insert word that makes sense here."

That's good question! And it's what {zu'i} is all about. Following
is an excerpt from RefGram Chap. 7:

----
zo'e KOhA zo'e-series: the obvious value
zu'i KOhA zo'e-series: the typical value

The cmavo of the zo'e-series represent indefinite, unspecified sumti.
The cmavo ``zo'e'' represents an elliptical value for this sumti
place; it is the optional spoken place holder when a sumti is skipped
without being specified. Note that the elliptical value is not always
the typical value. The properties of ellipsis lead to an elliptical
sumti being defined as ``whatever I want it to mean but haven't
bothered to figure out, or figure out how to express''.

The cmavo ``zu'i'', on the other hand, represents the typical value
for this place of this bridi:

7.1) mi klama le bartu be le zdani
le nenri be le zdani
zu'i zu'i
I go to-the outside of the house
from-the inside of the house
[by-typical-route] [by-typical-means]

In Example 7.1, the first ``zu'i'' probably means something like ``by
the door'', and the second ``zu'i'' probably means something like
``on foot'', those being the typical route and means for leaving a
house. On the other hand, if you are at the top of a high rise during
a fire, neither ``zu'i'' is appropriate. It's also common to use
``zu'i'' in ``by standard'' places.
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mi'e sanxiyn.