From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Apr 22 03:11:26 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_5); 22 Apr 2003 10:11:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 48106 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2003 10:11:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2003 10:11:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2003 10:11:26 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 197ukH-0006cR-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:11:25 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 197uhs-0006bd-00; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:08:57 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postman.arcor-online.net ([151.189.0.87]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 197uf3-0006b6-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 03:06:01 -0700 Received: from hamwpne1 (pc1-oxfd1-5-cust27.oxfd.cable.ntl.com [62.254.134.27]) (authenticated bits=0) by postman.arcor-online.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3MA5rps077980 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:05:57 +0200 (CEST) Organization: datenrevision GmbH & Co. OHG To: lojban-list@lojban.org Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:05:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [lojban] Re: The art of place structure. (And how to destroy it.) Message-ID: <3EA53016.7765.5DF971@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Mail message body X-archive-position: 4882 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pnewton@gmx.de Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: "Philip Newton" From: "Philip Newton" Reply-To: pnewton@gmx.de X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On 19 Apr 2003 at 2:39, eye_onus wrote: > I am familiar with 'se' and related, which switch x1 and xn, but is > there a way to alter the place structure of 'klama' to mean 'x1 goes > to x2 by means x3 from x4 via route x5'? As others have commented, this can be done by the use of multiple SE. See also http://www.lojban.org/wiki/index.php/Rearranging%20arguments%20without%2 0using%20FA (should be one line ... or search for "Rearranging arguments without using FA" on the Wiki). The order you "want" is {te xe ve te klama} (other combinations are also possible; this is the one listed on the page under "x1 x2 x5 x3 x4 te xe ve te brodu"). Not pretty, but it does what you want. You can also use cmavo from selma'o BAI; for example, "by means" is xeka'a, so you could say "mi klama le zarci xe ka'a le karce". mu'o mi'e .filip. -- Philip Newton