From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Apr 23 10:42:35 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_5); 23 Apr 2003 17:42:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 24750 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2003 17:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2003 17:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2003 17:42:34 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 198OGQ-0006um-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:42:34 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198OG1-0006uO-00; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:42:10 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 198OFr-0006uD-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:42:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB0431EE5 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:41:22 +0300 (EEST) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (ppp102.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.111.102]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC7331EC7 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:41:20 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3EA73391.4020906@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:45:05 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030313 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: [cowan: Re: Defining lujvo] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 4910 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: "robin.bcc" From: "robin.bcc" Reply-To: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Jim Carter wrote: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, John Cowan wrote: > >>This definitely won't work for Loglan/Lojban. For example, in Lojban >>it is possible to create two lujvo with the place structures "x1 has >>a heart" and "x1 has a kidney", and these are distinct predicates. >>In Gua\spi, however, they are the same predicate. > > > Not to contradict your conclusion that the -gua\spi definition won't work > for (every predicate in) Lojban, but isn't it "x1 is be-kidneyed by x2"? > Presumably, the sets of hearts and kidneys would only overlap a little, > unless we're defining a formerly unrecognized synonym, so the referent sets > would be distinct in this case. "risna" is defined as x1 is a/the heart of x2 (I couldn't find a gismu for "kidney"). "To have a heart" might be "selrisna". Consequently "la djan. selrisna" seems to imply "la djan. ponse lo risna" (except that the latter could mean that he could have someone else's heart in a jar on his mantelpiece). I suppose if you really wanted to make a tanru for "has a heart AND a kidney", "has a heart OR kidney" or even has "some kind of organ which combines the attributes of a heart and a kidney", on it would be possible, but I don't think you could lujvo-ise it because of the logical connectors. robin.tr -- "A Perl script is "correct" if it gets the job done before your boss fires you." - Larry Wall Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin