From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Apr 29 08:41:05 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 29 Apr 2003 15:41:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 15313 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2003 15:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2003 15:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2003 15:06:10 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19AWgL-0007kl-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:06:09 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19AWg8-0007kS-00; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:05:56 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postman.arcor-online.net ([151.189.0.87]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19AWfr-0007kJ-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:05:39 -0700 Received: from hamwpne1 (pc1-oxfd1-5-cust27.oxfd.cable.ntl.com [62.254.134.27]) (authenticated bits=0) by postman.arcor-online.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h3TF5ZJ8088049 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:05:36 +0200 (CEST) Organization: datenrevision GmbH & Co. OHG To: lojban-list@lojban.org Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:05:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [lojban] Re: le jdaselsku pe lo nunjdajirgau .e lo cesysai Message-ID: <3EAEB0D1.28554.70E612F@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20030404020034.87403.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3E8964E6.21679.34364A@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Mail message body X-archive-position: 5008 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pnewton@gmx.de Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: "Philip Newton" From: "Philip Newton" Reply-To: pnewton@gmx.de X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Apologies for the belated response. la xorxes cu cusku di'e > la filip cusku di'e > > > Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of > > the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. > > > > ki'u > > le nu > > catni fi tu'a la .iesus.xristos. > > kei > > mi jdajirgau do > > fi'o cmene be le patfu .e le bersa .e le censa pruxi fe'u ku > > vau > > .a'o re'e > > I suggest something like: > > ca'e teca'i tu'a la iesus xristos mi jdajirgau do > seka'i le patfu ku joi le bersa ku joi le censa pruxi > i a'ore'e > > ca'e: This indicates that it is a performative. I am not just > describing what I'm doing, but by saying this words I am > actually baptizing you. Nifty; thanks. Yes. > teca'i: seems better than ki'u Indeed; it seems to be just the right thing here. > seka'i: that's what "in the name of" means, doesn't it? I think so, yes. How would a proxy baptism be worded, though? "I baptise you for/on behalf of X, in the name of Y" - there are two representatives. Maybe something like {mi jdajirgau do pe seka'i xy. seka'i .y.bu}, to show that you represent X while the whole ordinance (the selbri) is done representing Y. > I think {fi'o cmene be} would mean something like "naming > the Father, and the Son ..." Probably... I didn't know much about {fi'o} when I wrote that. (I still don't remember the details, but it's probably not what I was looking for.) > joi: I'm not too sure here. Is it supposed to mean that I > baptize you in the name of the Father, and I baptize you in > the name of the Son, and I baptize you in the name of the > Holy Ghost? If so, then {.e} would be right, but maybe {joi} > sounds more trinitarian? Well, I didn't mean it sound trinitarian, but {joi} could still be correct here since I suppose one is representing all three. (I think {jo'u} would be most trinitarian, from what I understood.) Thank you for your comments! mu'o mi'e .filip. -- filip.niutyn.