From jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Wed Apr 30 09:53:09 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 30 Apr 2003 16:53:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 64876 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2003 16:53:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2003 16:53:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2003 16:53:08 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19AupQ-0006h9-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:53:08 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Auoz-0006eF-00; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:41 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fern.math.ucla.edu ([128.97.4.251]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19Auok-0006e3-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:26 -0700 Received: from simba.math.ucla.edu (simba.math.ucla.edu [128.97.4.125]) by fern.math.ucla.edu (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h3UGqPuY026139 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from simba.math.ucla.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by simba.math.ucla.edu (8.12.6/8.12.6/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id h3UGqP3I007810 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (jimc@localhost) by simba.math.ucla.edu (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with ESMTP id h3UGqPTt007807 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: simba.math.ucla.edu: jimc owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: nai in UI (was: BPFK phpbb) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 5060 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Jim Carter Reply-To: jimc@math.ucla.edu X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=810565 On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, And Rosta wrote: > I have no problem with the Formal Grammar or Official Parser passing > nonsense. But any truly well-formed sentence of Lojban must be meaningful, > however silly or surreal that meaning is. A true parser will recognize > which strings are and aren't meaningful. A parser that ignores meaning > is nonsense, in the sense that it produces nothing useful. Hey, wait a minute! Think modularity. There are morpheme streams that can or can't be split into valid Lojban words. There are word streams that can or can't be parsed into valid syntax trees. And there are semantic constructs that are or aren't Carroll-esque. The phrase "meaningful concept" is too vague to be a meaningful concept. I would like to amend your pronouncement to say, a valid parser passes all valid word streams (putting out a correct syntax tree) and rejects all invalid word streams, where validity is judged from the grammar. In other words, the parser does or doesn't truly realize that grammar. (I.e. makes it real.) (And as a separate module, the semantic analyser may have an opinion about jabberwockishness.) I'm sure we can come up with natlang examples where the parsing depends in an essential way on the meaning of the words (not just their syntactic category), but I can't think of one so early in the morning. But that kind of a pain in the butt doesn't belong in Lojban. Think modularity! James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key)