From ragnarok@pobox.com Sun May 04 07:38:25 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 31487 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from craig [209.42.200.60] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id A5E41F070232; Sun, 04 May 2003 10:38:28 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Some ideas/questions (long) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:38:23 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20030504030759.GQ28808@ccil.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.60] From: "Craig" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> Or better yet, why not use the three-letter rafsi all >> the time? That would shorten text considerably and, when the words >> are only one syllable long, it could reduce the need for all the word >> shortcuts that may also be complicated to learn. Not only that, but >> using rafsi full-time means that, in order to make lujvo, all you >> must do is jam words together. >It would also eliminate the difference between tanru and lujvo, an >essential Loglan/Lojban concept. My understanding is that this is basically the -gua!spi approach. >"gaufek" is not well-formed, because it doesn't end in a vowel; otherwise, >your reasoning is entirely sound. "gaufek" also does not have a consonant cluster in its first five letters. Thus, breaks up as "gau fek" - a cmavo and a cmene. >> Another oddball >> is the bottle/jar/urn example above...'x1 is a bottle' plus 'x1 is >> made of x2'? And why must lid be specified in this predicate? >Because the presence of the lid is what makes it a botpi rather than >a kabri or perhaps a patxu or even something else. "Lid" can be >identified with cork or stopper as well. I feel bottle is a misleading keyword. "botpi" is a lidded container, which may or may not be a bottle. It certainly has a lid. From ragnarok@pobox.com Sun May 04 07:38:25 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 31487 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2003 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from craig [209.42.200.60] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id A5E41F070232; Sun, 04 May 2003 10:38:28 -0400 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] Some ideas/questions (long) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:38:23 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20030504030759.GQ28808@ccil.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.60] From: "Craig" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48763382 X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl >> Or better yet, why not use the three-letter rafsi all >> the time? That would shorten text considerably and, when the words >> are only one syllable long, it could reduce the need for all the word >> shortcuts that may also be complicated to learn. Not only that, but >> using rafsi full-time means that, in order to make lujvo, all you >> must do is jam words together. >It would also eliminate the difference between tanru and lujvo, an >essential Loglan/Lojban concept. My understanding is that this is basically the -gua!spi approach. >"gaufek" is not well-formed, because it doesn't end in a vowel; otherwise, >your reasoning is entirely sound. "gaufek" also does not have a consonant cluster in its first five letters. Thus, breaks up as "gau fek" - a cmavo and a cmene. >> Another oddball >> is the bottle/jar/urn example above...'x1 is a bottle' plus 'x1 is >> made of x2'? And why must lid be specified in this predicate? >Because the presence of the lid is what makes it a botpi rather than >a kabri or perhaps a patxu or even something else. "Lid" can be >identified with cork or stopper as well. I feel bottle is a misleading keyword. "botpi" is a lidded container, which may or may not be a bottle. It certainly has a lid.