From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun May 04 16:53:26 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 4 May 2003 23:53:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 52263 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 23:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2003 23:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2003 23:53:24 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19CTIK-00081d-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:53:24 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CTI7-00081I-00; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:53:11 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 04 May 2003 16:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miranda.org ([209.58.150.153] ident=qmailr) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CTHt-00080Y-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:52:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 28222 invoked by uid 534); 4 May 2003 23:52:56 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:52:56 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Some ideas/questions (long) Message-ID: <20030504235256.GH15743@miranda.org> References: <20030504205158.GF28808@ccil.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: art-lojban, en User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 5120 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jkominek@miranda.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jay F Kominek From: Jay F Kominek Reply-To: jkominek@miranda.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Sun, May 04, 2003 at 10:51:57PM -0000, oskar2379 wrote: > > > 'the image of a cat'. The word 'of' usually implies association, > as > > > if it were a *part* of the cat. > > > > The "of" in this case is just part of the grammatical machinery of > > English, sort of equivalent to Lojban "be". When I speak of "the > > mother of John", I don't imply that John's mother is part of John. > > Alternatively, you wind up saying that everything John stands in > relation > > to is part of John, which reduces the idea of "part" to a nullity. > > That's true, but isn't your own image a part of you? At least > metaphorically? My image is a surface which reflects (or emits) photons in a pattern more or less identical to the way I reflect photons. (I'm reminded of some cultures which believe that taking a photograph of someone capture's their soul.) -- Jay Kominek Reality is what refuses to go away when you stop believing in it. From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun May 04 16:53:26 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 4 May 2003 23:53:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 52263 invoked from network); 4 May 2003 23:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2003 23:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2003 23:53:24 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19CTIK-00081d-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:53:24 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CTI7-00081I-00; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:53:11 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 04 May 2003 16:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miranda.org ([209.58.150.153] ident=qmailr) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CTHt-00080Y-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 04 May 2003 16:52:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 28222 invoked by uid 534); 4 May 2003 23:52:56 -0000 Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:52:56 -0600 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Some ideas/questions (long) Message-ID: <20030504235256.GH15743@miranda.org> References: <20030504205158.GF28808@ccil.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: art-lojban, en User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-archive-position: 5120 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jkominek@miranda.org Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jay F Kominek From: Jay F Kominek Reply-To: jkominek@miranda.org X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out On Sun, May 04, 2003 at 10:51:57PM -0000, oskar2379 wrote: > > > 'the image of a cat'. The word 'of' usually implies association, > as > > > if it were a *part* of the cat. > > > > The "of" in this case is just part of the grammatical machinery of > > English, sort of equivalent to Lojban "be". When I speak of "the > > mother of John", I don't imply that John's mother is part of John. > > Alternatively, you wind up saying that everything John stands in > relation > > to is part of John, which reduces the idea of "part" to a nullity. > > That's true, but isn't your own image a part of you? At least > metaphorically? My image is a surface which reflects (or emits) photons in a pattern more or less identical to the way I reflect photons. (I'm reminded of some cultures which believe that taking a photograph of someone capture's their soul.) -- Jay Kominek Reality is what refuses to go away when you stop believing in it.