From phma@webjockey.net Mon May 05 07:01:17 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 5 May 2003 14:01:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 85394 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 13:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2003 13:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2003 13:59:46 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19CgVN-0005MU-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 05 May 2003 06:59:45 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CgUy-0005Lz-00; Mon, 05 May 2003 06:59:20 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 05 May 2003 06:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-150-110-21-adsl.precisionet.net ([208.150.110.21] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CgUU-0005Lo-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 06:58:51 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2C06A245A; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:58:19 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: required commas (was Re: Stress of cmene) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:58:18 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200305040821.28114.phma@webjockey.net> <20030504160442.GA73599@allusion.net> <3EB5402C.3060607@free.fr> In-Reply-To: <3EB5402C.3060607@free.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200305050958.18927.phma@webjockey.net> X-archive-position: 5124 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@webjockey.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@webjockey.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 On Sunday 04 May 2003 12:30, Lionel Vidal wrote: > Well, my mistake. You are quite right of course, and although I was less > than half serious in my first paragraph, I should not have drawn > non-sensical conclusions for the pleasure of a bad joke. (And anyway > I did realise too late it was non-sensical). > > I still think my proposals for default stress on cmene is a good > solution though. > And I still think that two cmenes should not be considered different if > they differ > only in stress. I see two possibilities: 1. Two cmene differing only in stress are the same. Commas are ignored. 2. Two cmene differing only in stress are different. Commas are ignored unless they change the syllabication of vowels. The problem with 2 is that syllabication of vowels can be changed without changing the sound of the word, e.g. {malau,is} vs. {mala,uis}. As to the ,=' rule, I think it's a mistake. Apostrophes are always distinctive, whereas commas are not. {malauis} = {malau,is} <> {malau'is}. phma From phma@webjockey.net Mon May 05 07:01:17 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 5 May 2003 14:01:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 85394 invoked from network); 5 May 2003 13:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2003 13:59:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2003 13:59:46 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19CgVN-0005MU-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 05 May 2003 06:59:45 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CgUy-0005Lz-00; Mon, 05 May 2003 06:59:20 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 05 May 2003 06:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-150-110-21-adsl.precisionet.net ([208.150.110.21] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19CgUU-0005Lo-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 05 May 2003 06:58:51 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2C06A245A; Mon, 5 May 2003 13:58:19 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: required commas (was Re: Stress of cmene) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:58:18 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <200305040821.28114.phma@webjockey.net> <20030504160442.GA73599@allusion.net> <3EB5402C.3060607@free.fr> In-Reply-To: <3EB5402C.3060607@free.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200305050958.18927.phma@webjockey.net> X-archive-position: 5124 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@webjockey.net Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@webjockey.net X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92712300 On Sunday 04 May 2003 12:30, Lionel Vidal wrote: > Well, my mistake. You are quite right of course, and although I was less > than half serious in my first paragraph, I should not have drawn > non-sensical conclusions for the pleasure of a bad joke. (And anyway > I did realise too late it was non-sensical). > > I still think my proposals for default stress on cmene is a good > solution though. > And I still think that two cmenes should not be considered different if > they differ > only in stress. I see two possibilities: 1. Two cmene differing only in stress are the same. Commas are ignored. 2. Two cmene differing only in stress are different. Commas are ignored unless they change the syllabication of vowels. The problem with 2 is that syllabication of vowels can be changed without changing the sound of the word, e.g. {malau,is} vs. {mala,uis}. As to the ,=' rule, I think it's a mistake. Apostrophes are always distinctive, whereas commas are not. {malauis} = {malau,is} <> {malau'is}. phma