From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue May 06 15:49:42 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 45761 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19DBFl-0006lF-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:41 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DBFe-0006kw-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:34 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.4netaccess.com ([63.118.78.142] helo=mailserver120.sectorlink.com) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DBFT-0006kn-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:23 -0700 Received: from [68.74.11.224] by mailserver120.sectorlink.com with SmartMax MailMax for lojban-list@lojban.org at Tue, 06 May 2003 18:49:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1052261359.10876@mailserver120.sectorlink.com> Message-ID: <3EB83BF1.20302@brucewebber.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 18:49:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: measuring semantic space References: <10d.23f47ac0.2be96916@wmconnect.com> <1052250947.11394@mailserver120.sectorlink.com> In-Reply-To: <1052250947.11394@mailserver120.sectorlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-archive-position: 5169 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: bruce@brucewebber.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Bruce Webber From: Bruce Webber Reply-To: bruce@brucewebber.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Jay F Kominek wrote: > On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 03:37:58PM -0400, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > >>In a message dated 2003-05-06 5:56:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lojban@yahoogroups.com writes: >> >> >>>How does one demonstrate that? (Or, for starters, measure semantic space?) >> >>my first thought is: by starting with everything and successively dividing it >>into smaller spaces. rick morneau (creator of katanda/nasendi) does this or >>very similar. > > > And when do you stop dividing? > > >>second thought: use concept lists (e.g. roget's thesaurus). > > > That does nothing for you, as you have no idea (let alone evidence or > *proof*!) that whatever list you use is complete. If we apply the map-territory analogy to language and the world it describes, we see that language will always be inaccurate and incomplete. No amount of dividing will completely cover the "semantic" space. Hence the need for tanru, lujvo, and more complex structures. mu'o mi'e brus. -- brus.uebr. Bruce Webber bruce@brucewebber.com http://www.brucewebber.com From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue May 06 15:49:42 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 45761 invoked from network); 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2003 22:49:41 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19DBFl-0006lF-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:41 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DBFe-0006kw-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:34 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.4netaccess.com ([63.118.78.142] helo=mailserver120.sectorlink.com) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DBFT-0006kn-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 15:49:23 -0700 Received: from [68.74.11.224] by mailserver120.sectorlink.com with SmartMax MailMax for lojban-list@lojban.org at Tue, 06 May 2003 18:49:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1052261359.10876@mailserver120.sectorlink.com> Message-ID: <3EB83BF1.20302@brucewebber.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 18:49:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: measuring semantic space References: <10d.23f47ac0.2be96916@wmconnect.com> <1052250947.11394@mailserver120.sectorlink.com> In-Reply-To: <1052250947.11394@mailserver120.sectorlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-archive-position: 5169 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: bruce@brucewebber.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Bruce Webber From: Bruce Webber Reply-To: bruce@brucewebber.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out Jay F Kominek wrote: > On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 03:37:58PM -0400, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > >>In a message dated 2003-05-06 5:56:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lojban@yahoogroups.com writes: >> >> >>>How does one demonstrate that? (Or, for starters, measure semantic space?) >> >>my first thought is: by starting with everything and successively dividing it >>into smaller spaces. rick morneau (creator of katanda/nasendi) does this or >>very similar. > > > And when do you stop dividing? > > >>second thought: use concept lists (e.g. roget's thesaurus). > > > That does nothing for you, as you have no idea (let alone evidence or > *proof*!) that whatever list you use is complete. If we apply the map-territory analogy to language and the world it describes, we see that language will always be inaccurate and incomplete. No amount of dividing will completely cover the "semantic" space. Hence the need for tanru, lujvo, and more complex structures. mu'o mi'e brus. -- brus.uebr. Bruce Webber bruce@brucewebber.com http://www.brucewebber.com