From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue May 06 18:17:51 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 4885 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19DDZ8-0007eI-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:50 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DDYX-0007dr-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:13 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10908.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.131.44]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DDYL-0007dY-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20030507011700.72151.qmail@web10908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.178.214.125] by web10908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:00 PDT Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] Re: Some ideas/questions (long) To: lojban list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 5173 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eye_onus@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jon MacLeod From: Jon MacLeod Reply-To: eye_onus@yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out I never had any intention of creating a new language, nor do I have any intention of creating a 'monosyllabic' Lojban. Nor do I think it is anyone elses in the community. > If we applied this kind of method to the entire language, until every > word follows the system, we could potentially eliminate a lot of > words and thus have enough three-letter combinations for every word. I take the above to mean that he wants to fix those exceptions in the language that occur to 1) minimize the amount of needed gismu by turning unnecessary gismu into lujvo (such as the the gismu for 'mother' being replaced by the lujvo for 'woman type-of parent') 2) Making the place structures of similar words match (for instance the words for 'angry' and 'sad') and 3) enable all gismu to have easily discerned rafsi. As far as the rafsi is concerned, I would think it would make sense to give all gismu two rafsi, one of type CCV or CVV, and the other of type CVC, in order to make it possible to combine any rafsi in any order (those gismu with --C only rafsi cannot be at the end of a gismu, for instance) Also, it would good to have a standard to make these two rafsi: CVCCV: CvCcV + CVCcv | CVcCv CCVCV: CcVcV + cCVCv | CcVCv So, gismu's two rafsi would be: gsu + gis | gim (probably 'gis') cmene's would be: cee + men | cen (probably 'cen') This would, I think, be able to determine distinguishable rafsi for every gismu, especially once the work of eliminating gismu that could easily be lujvo. That is what I offering to help write a proposal on, and I think that if the work was done on it, that it at least have a chance in commitee, though i am not confident of it being accepted, merely because of the stubbornness of those who've ben in the Lojban community a long time. ('It's always been like this, and it works, why change it?' (The answer is 'Because this works better.' Of course that's debatable, but we won't know unless the work on the proposal is done.)) -Jon ===== "I have a brain, I've just lost my mind." -Ian McLeod -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.1 GSC>$ d+(++) s++:-- a-- C++ UL P L>+++ !E W+(++) N++ o? K- !w--- O- M@ V? PS+++ PE- Y+ PGP- t+ !5 X(+) R+ !tv-- b+++ DI+ D+ G e* h* r-(%) y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue May 06 18:17:51 2003 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_6_6); 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 4885 invoked from network); 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO digitalkingdom.org) (204.152.186.175) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2003 01:17:51 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.12) id 19DDZ8-0007eI-00 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:50 -0700 Received: from digitalkingdom.org ([204.152.186.175] helo=chain) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DDYX-0007dr-00; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:13 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10908.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.131.44]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19DDYL-0007dY-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20030507011700.72151.qmail@web10908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.178.214.125] by web10908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 May 2003 18:17:00 PDT Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] Re: Some ideas/questions (long) To: lojban list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 5173 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eye_onus@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk X-list: lojban-list X-eGroups-From: Jon MacLeod From: Jon MacLeod Reply-To: eye_onus@yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790 X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out I never had any intention of creating a new language, nor do I have any intention of creating a 'monosyllabic' Lojban. Nor do I think it is anyone elses in the community. > If we applied this kind of method to the entire language, until every > word follows the system, we could potentially eliminate a lot of > words and thus have enough three-letter combinations for every word. I take the above to mean that he wants to fix those exceptions in the language that occur to 1) minimize the amount of needed gismu by turning unnecessary gismu into lujvo (such as the the gismu for 'mother' being replaced by the lujvo for 'woman type-of parent') 2) Making the place structures of similar words match (for instance the words for 'angry' and 'sad') and 3) enable all gismu to have easily discerned rafsi. As far as the rafsi is concerned, I would think it would make sense to give all gismu two rafsi, one of type CCV or CVV, and the other of type CVC, in order to make it possible to combine any rafsi in any order (those gismu with --C only rafsi cannot be at the end of a gismu, for instance) Also, it would good to have a standard to make these two rafsi: CVCCV: CvCcV + CVCcv | CVcCv CCVCV: CcVcV + cCVCv | CcVCv So, gismu's two rafsi would be: gsu + gis | gim (probably 'gis') cmene's would be: cee + men | cen (probably 'cen') This would, I think, be able to determine distinguishable rafsi for every gismu, especially once the work of eliminating gismu that could easily be lujvo. That is what I offering to help write a proposal on, and I think that if the work was done on it, that it at least have a chance in commitee, though i am not confident of it being accepted, merely because of the stubbornness of those who've ben in the Lojban community a long time. ('It's always been like this, and it works, why change it?' (The answer is 'Because this works better.' Of course that's debatable, but we won't know unless the work on the proposal is done.)) -Jon ===== "I have a brain, I've just lost my mind." -Ian McLeod -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.1 GSC>$ d+(++) s++:-- a-- C++ UL P L>+++ !E W+(++) N++ o? K- !w--- O- M@ V? PS+++ PE- Y+ PGP- t+ !5 X(+) R+ !tv-- b+++ DI+ D+ G e* h* r-(%) y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com