Subject: Re: [lojban] morphology questions

From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 00:56:28 -0500

At 01:47 AM 03/09/2000 +0300, Cyril Slobin wrote:
>Can anybody help me with some questions in lojban morphology?

I will post the last draft of the morphology algorithm in a separate 
message. Subject to any discussion as a result of this posting, I will add 
it to the Web site next time I do an update.

>1) 'la', 'lai' and 'doi' are forbidden in cmene. Are there forbidden
>also if last vovel in dangerous sylabelle is part of diphtong or vovel
>pair? For example, are cmene 'laumer' and "la'adan" legal or not?

I believe that the former is acceptable, but that the latter is not, but 
the wording of the algorithm is somewhat ambiguous with respect to the 
former.

It is plausible that there would be no problem with either of these in a 
real Lojban speech stream, but the way that the last draft of the 
morphology algorithm is written, there will be a word break inserted prior 
to "la" or "lai" or "doi" if not preceded by a consonant.

The words of the reference grammar say in one place that these cannot be 
syllables, whereas in another place it vaguely implies that the strings 
would be invalid. I interpret it towards the "no 'la/lai/doi' starting a 
syllable" interpretation, since otherwise there would be no need to mention 
"lai", since it would be invalidated for having "la". Thus I conclude that 
"lau" in a syllable is valid. "la'a" on the other hand would run afoul of 
the algorithm as written, even though an apostrophe cannot start a word.

>2) What is official status of (pseudo-)cmavo with letter 'y' outside
>".y.", "y'y" and "Cy"? I mean "ca'y" and so on... Are they just a cmavo
>without assignied meaning, or are they experimental (like xa'a), ore are
>they morphologically illegal?

Undefined in the reference grammar. pg. 35 says that vowel pairs involving 
"y" are use only in Lojbanized names and .y'y; they could be cmavo but are 
not used. there is nothing stated about CVV where one V is a 
"y". Experimental cmavo are those with 3 or more consecutive vowels, and xVV.

As written, the morphology algorithm would seem to break a CVV with a "y" 
before the vowel pair.

>3) As jc and lojbab recently written, 'r' hyphen is either required or
>forbidden. Is this also true for 'y' hyphen? For example, is lujvo lile
>'samypli' legal?

'y' also is either required or forbidden., so samypli is invalid.

lojbab
----
lojbab [email-masked]
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org (newly updated!)