From qseep@iname.com Mon Mar 20 14:49:49 2000 Received: (qmail 14738 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2000 22:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2000 22:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta2.onelist.org with SMTP; 20 Mar 2000 22:50:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: qseep@iname.com Received: from [10.1.10.29] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2000 22:50:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:50:09 -0000 To: lojban@onelist.com Subject: Translating names Message-ID: <8b69v1+fml0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 Content-Length: 1972 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-eGroups-From: "Quantum Seep" From: "Quantum Seep" I have noted that there is more than one way to translate a name into Lojban, depending supposedly on the wishes of the name's bearer, or the users of the name. One way is to use a phonetic translation. For example, the name "John" may become the cmene "djan." The rules of Lojbanization presented in section 4.8 of the reference grammar. However, sometimes a semantic translation is preferable. For example, a person with the nickname "Bear" might want a Lojban name looking something like "cribe." However, it is not clear to me whether that word should be left as a gismu or turned into a cmene - and if so, how. For example, if Bear wrote this book (as on page 124), should I say a) "la cribe pu finti le vi cukta" or b) "la criben pu finti le vi cukta". In (a) I leave the name as a gismu, while in (b) I attempt to turn it into a cmene by adding an "n". Also, in the case of (b), are the final letters "s" and "n" preferred, and if so, why? There are also some cases where names have been formed by creating improper lujvo. I say "improper" because although they are formed from rafsi, they illegally end in a consonant. However, they are intended as cmene and are legal as such. An example is the name "lojban" which is formed from rafsi for "logji" and "bangu." Is this a preferred way of constructing names when they are made from tanru? Could the language just as well have been called "la lojbangu" (lujvo)or "la lojbangun" (cmene)? As if I was not already confused enough, I found a third way of constructing names in the book. In example 10.3 of chapter 6, the book says "mi viska la'e lu le xunre cmaxirma li'u" ("I see 'The Red Pony'") which refers to a book by its title. Isn't a person's name also just a referent? Then why couldn't refer to the person named Bear as "la'e lu cribe li'u"? Or could I? What would be the connotation? Thanks for your help. Translating names is some basic stuff and I'm a bit confused. - Quantum Seep