From lojbab@lojban.org Wed Mar 22 13:01:52 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28432 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2000 20:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Mar 2000 20:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy.cais.net) (199.0.216.101) by mta1.onelist.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2000 20:56:17 -0000 Received: from bob (dynamic98.cl7.cais.net [205.177.20.98]) by stmpy.cais.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02391 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:55:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000322154318.00b7e510@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:54:33 -0500 To: lojban@onelist.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Translating names In-Reply-To: <7c.324a07b.2609f363@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-eGroups-From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 04:58 AM 03/22/2000 -0500, pycyn@aol.com wrote: >The final consonant and the pause are needed for segmentation purposes but >are not otherwise significant. Nor, in Lojban, is the choice of final >consonant; in Loglan, -s is required in borrowed or constructed names that >would end in a vowel. I don't recall him ever saying 's' was required, but it is one he used commonly. As you note, he also used 'n' a lot. > I suspect that JCB used -s because, as suggested, it >was familiar, but also because he took it to be a minimal addition (talking >about {romas} for Rome, he notes how little the mere -s would bother a Roman, >though he is contrasting it with the effect of dropping the last syllable. >He makes a similar comment about {paRIS} for French). Lojban's preference >for s probably is inherited. The preference for n probably is, too; it >appeared in constructed names first where it was vaguely justified >({loglentan, the last element from {takna}) then where it was not. It was >also used to make names out of cmavo ({nen}, One). Again this is familiar >and minimal (in some sense) and, I suspect, the symmetry of {nen}, the most >common case, was appealing to JCB. Both of these rules or patterns might >have been generalized in Lojban's more relaxed atmosphere. There was one other conscious reason for MY using "n". This was also a conscious letter choice in a small number of gismu that were made wherein it did not matter what consonant was chosen in a given position; I later regretted this because of rafsi collisions. It is a syllable-ending consonant that is phonologically acceptable in many languages that prefer to avoid CVC syllables. It therefore probably sounds more pleasant to a speaker of such languages. In addition, because of the mapping of Chinese phonemes it is also the most common syllable ending consonant in Lojban, with r and s and c also in there. Thus rafsi using n are common and names built to emulate lujvo or to chop a character off a gismu will tend to end in these letters (JCB's dog's name: "cimr"). I think that s and c occur so much in the language that I get sibilant-tired, and so I avoid using them in names. I don't know why I never end names with 'r'. lojbab ---- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org (newly updated!)