From pycyn@aol.com Mon Apr 17 01:59:52 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20298 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 08:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Apr 2000 08:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo11.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.1) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 08:59:52 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.84.3fd0f59 (3874) for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84.3fd0f59.262c2c85@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 04:59:49 EDT Subject: Re:RECORD: za'o To: lojban@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 33 X-eGroups-From: Pycyn@aol.com From: pycyn@aol.com &: pc>>(I don't think achievements can go on overtime since they >>don't go on at all), >If they don't go on at all, then that's only by definitional fiat. Most achievements (e.g. a train crossing a border) have or lack duration according to how magnified one's view of it is. My personal favourite za'o/superfective examplar involves in fact "become full", as with a suitcase that becomes full but continues to be stuffed beyond this point.< pc: Maybe it is definitional, but achievements tend to be terminal aspects of processes and the processes and their perfective aspects often have the same name: win a race, for example (of fill a suitcase). The actual winning is the instant that the tape breaks when all other conditions have been met; before that there is only a likelihood of a win, after that the race has been won -- the winning is already past. And notice that it is only the running (or the stuffing) that goes on, not winning the race nor filling the bag. (The bag case is less clear, of course, since it is less clear exactly when the bag is full.)