From pycyn@aol.com Mon May 01 02:02:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11512 invoked from network); 1 May 2000 09:02:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 May 2000 09:02:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO qg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.27) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 May 2000 09:02:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 1247 invoked from network); 1 May 2000 09:02:01 -0000 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.36) by qg.egroups.com with SMTP; 1 May 2000 09:02:01 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v26.7.) id a.b0.484b917 (4340) for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:01:56 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] re: nazycau gerku and najyzme To: lojban@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 33 From: pycyn@aol.com In a message dated 4/30/00 12:21:49 PM CST, jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: << la pycyn cusku di'e ><< > za'a galfi le jufra (It seems to modify the sentence.)>> [...] > And will {galfi} really work: the sentence is >unchanged and the lojban phrase is hardly an agent? {ve skicu}? [Natural >tight literalism in action] Why can't a sentence be modified? Can't we say: le nu pilno zo ba'o cu galfi lu i sidbo li'u lu i ba'o sidbo li'u The use of "ba'o" changes the sentence "i sidbo" into the sentence "i ba'o sidbo". {le jufra} has to refer to the sentence before the modification, but that would be the case with any object being modified, nothing special about sentences.>> Sure, but in this case, the sentence was NOT modified and the author (I've forgotten who in all the layers of >>) seemed to be shooting for the grammatical/semantical notion. And the first place of {galfi} still is supposed to be an agent, isn't it, the means coming in later? [Quick check: no, though agent seems recommended; means are not mentioned] << >.i mi pu'o ciksi zo nazyzme fo la'e lu kanba >se cigla panci guzme li'u no'u la'e zoi gy. muskmelon .gy i le mi vlacku cu xusra to lo cukta ka'e xusra toi le du'u la'e zoi gy musk gy cu mirli se cigla>> Yeah, I guess it is officially and primarily a deer, but it can be a goat and goats are funnier than deer (and than oxen too).