From d.gudlat@rpluss.com Thu May 04 00:57:52 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27564 invoked from network); 4 May 2000 07:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 May 2000 07:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.www-service.de) (212.77.161.16) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 May 2000 07:57:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 7614 invoked from network); 4 May 2000 07:57:46 -0000 Received: from pc19ea39b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO frilix.rus.ger.com) (193.158.163.155) by smtp.www-service.de with SMTP; 4 May 2000 07:57:46 -0000 Received: from kipnis (kipnis.rus.ger.com [193.27.25.34]) by frilix.rus.ger.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA14058 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:03:40 +0200 Message-ID: <013101bfb59e$43062680$22191bc1@rus.ger.com> Reply-To: "Daniel Gudlat" To: References: <20000503152449.68914.qmail@hotmail.com> <4.2.2.20000503183102.00a26100@127.0.0.1> <20000503231532.17373.qmail@multivac.student.cwru.edu> Subject: Re: [lojban] coi rodo -- greetings from the newbie Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:56:32 +0200 Organization: R+S Reengineering und Softwaredesign GmbH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 From: "Daniel Gudlat" la pol. cusku di'e > Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) writes: > > At 12:17 PM 05/03/2000 -0400, Paul Jarc wrote: > > >The lojban spelling would be {DJEF OLsyn}. > > > > This is a good answer, but two points: > > > > 1) Lojban syllables with "y" are never stressed, the default stress is > > penultimate (next to last syllable), > > More precisely, IIRC, it's the next-to-last non-y syllable (i.e., the > non-y syllable most immediately prior to the last non-y syllable, as > opposed to the non-y syllable most immediately prior to the last > syllable). {olsyn} has no such syllable, of course, so I guess stress > would go on `ol' after all. Sounds right to me. > > So while Pol has given an acceptable Lojban version, > > I think I prefer `Paul' in English, or {la pol} in lojban. `Pol' is a > bit... odd-seeming. Speaking of name-lojbanization, can anyone think > of a better way to lojbanize that vowel? I agree with the Paul vs. Pol issue. I think that open o in Paul is essentially un-lojbanizable, seeing as lojban only has "pure" sounds. If you're texan, you might want to lojbanize your name to "porl", but that's just me and my odd linguistic humor, I guess... ;-) > > 2) Most dialects of English do not actually use a "y" in the pronunciation > > where Pol inserted one, but just use syllabic "n". > > Listening to myself, I hear a little bit of a vowel between the s and > n - not quite lojban's {y}, more like English's short i (I ought to > learn the phonetic alphabet one of these days...), but lojban doesn't > have an unambiguous way to write that sound. But {olsn} certainly > works too. Lojban not only doesn't have an unambigous way to write that sound, it very specifically doesn't have that sound at all. IIRC the short i in english "bit" is used as a discardable, "out-of-band" buffer vowel to break up consonant clusters that are hard to pronounce for a lojban speaker. So, depending on how pronounced a sound you have between the s and n in Olson, the only alternatives I see are olsn and olsyn. Bye, -- Daniel "Gudy" Gudlat d.gudlat@rpluss.com No one pays me enough to speak for them, so I only speak for myself.