From sklyanin@pdmi.ras.ru Thu May 04 02:09:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2359 invoked from network); 4 May 2000 09:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 May 2000 09:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO qh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.28) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 May 2000 09:09:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 31728 invoked from network); 4 May 2000 09:09:01 -0000 Received: from mr.egroups.com (10.1.1.37) by iqh.egroups.com with SMTP; 4 May 2000 09:09:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sklyanin@pdmi.ras.ru Received: from [10.1.10.29] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2000 09:09:01 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:08:59 -0000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: genders of language names Message-ID: <8erenb+klph@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1e.4c3388f.2641f788@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Length: 1448 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster From: "Evgueni Sklyanin" --- In lojban@egroups.com, BestATN@a... wrote: > To: Evgenij Sklyanin > From: Steven Lytle > I don't usually contradict native speakers of other languages, but I feel > it's warranted in this case. Perhaps Russians actually use masculine terms > for Esperanto, but every Russian dictionary I have has it listed as > indeclinable neuter, and not masculine. Most of these dictionaries are from > the USSR or Russia, so I trust them on this point. Oops... mi ckeji .i le mi flira cu xunre binxo Actually, I have managed to find in the Web the phrase {reformirovannyi esperanto} (reformed Esperanto) where "Esperanto" is used as a masculine noun. Being no esperantist, I do not know what the conventional usage is. Since "Esperanto" is a defective noun having no declension the only point where its gender could be relevant is the agreement of adjectives. Personally, if pressed to say something like "beautiful Esperanto" I would avoid thinking of its gender and instead of choosing between {prekrasnyi Esperanto} and {prekrasnoe Esperanto} which both sound suspicious to me, I would say {prekrasnyi yazyk Esperanto} (beautiful language Esperanto) adding a categorizing noun. Anyway, my point was that whereas "Lojban" is easily assimilated into Russian and happily takes case endings (lojbana, lojbanu, lojbanom,...), with "Esperanto" I feel awkward and need to _think_ how to use it instead of deciding intuitively. co'o mi'e .evgenis.