From nellardo@concentric.net Tue May 09 16:47:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10532 invoked from network); 9 May 2000 23:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 May 2000 23:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO darius.concentric.net) (207.155.198.79) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 May 2000 23:47:55 -0000 Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.198.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id TAA07661; Tue, 9 May 2000 19:47:55 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from concentric.net ([216.112.226.144]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id TAA20009; Tue, 9 May 2000 19:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3918A355.990A7107@concentric.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 18:50:59 -0400 Reply-To: nellardo@concentric.net Organization: Herds of Wild Buffalo Girls X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: More adventures of Max the Dog... pro-bridi, brevity, and tone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brook Conner So, more fun with Max. English: Max the dog loves to go for walks. Big walks or little walks. Long walks or short walks. Walks to the park, or walks around the block. Max loves walks. This being a highly informal English, I'd think that the lojban translation would be sticky, and so it appears to be. One thought I had was to use pro-bridi. la maks. poi gerku cu se pluka lo mu'e cadzu cei broda .i broda lo mu'e ze'i cadzu .i broda lo mu'e ze'a cadzu .i broda lo mu'e ze'u cadzu .i broda lo mu'e ve'i cadzu .i broda lo mu'e ve'a cadzu .i broda lo mu'e ve'u cadzu .i broda lo mu'e vi vi'a cadzu la xabji .i broda lo mu'e vu vi'i cadzu la panka .i la maks. broda This is of course repetitive as all get out. But when using "broda", how does one distinguish between *replacement* of a sumti, and addition of a sumti? I.e., when I say: .i broda lo mu'e ze'i cadzu did I mean: la maks. poi gerku cu se pluka lo mu'e cadzu lo mu'e ze'i cadzu Max the dog likes to go for walks, under conditions of short walks. (Max likes to go for walks, so long as they are short. or did I mean: la maks. poi gerku cu se pluka lo mu'e ze'i cadzu Max the dog likes to go for short walks. (conditions unspecified). Is the sumti following "broda" a replacement for x2? Or a new x3? And how about with la xabji and la panka? How do those group? I suppose they need grouping cmavo..... Note, too, the three categories compared to the english two - it seemed more "lojbanic" to use lojban's concept of small-medium-large built into tenses than to stick with the literal English adjectives (which, like much of English, are very dualistic - one or the other). So let's use some logical connectives among the tenses. la maks. poi gerku cu se pluka lo mu'e cadzu cei broda .i broda lo mu'e ze'i ja ze'a ja ze'u cadzu .i broda lo mu'e ve'i ja ve'a ja ve'u cadzu It seems however, that you can't get rid of the repetition of "lo mu'e" and "cadzu". Am I right? Or did I miss something? Is there some kind of "pro-cmavo" for "broda" where you mark what will be substituted or what you are substituting? More later.... Brook