Subject: Re: Again: transcription of Chinese cmene

From: "Alfred W. Tüting" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 19:41:01 -0000

la pycyn. pu ciska di'e:

> No /sh/ in lojban, just /c/, and I don't think it can be syllabic. 
So, that 
> would give /cdjin/, which is illegal as a mixture of voiced and
voiceless 
> (fortes and lenues) and so requires a breaker /y/. I am not sure
that 
> /cydjin/ is all that bad, although it hurts Chinese ears, even for
those eyes 
> used to see /i/ or /e/ or /u/ there. The other vowels remain a
problem, too.

Oh, yes, you're so right (sh was a silly typo), but there are still
more serious problems as you pointed out.

/j,djin./ could only solve the problem with adjacent (voiced and
voiceless) consonants - and no good compromise anyway.
/cydjin./ doesn't give the sound correctly (as pinyin: /shi/ has to
be distinguished from pinyin: she=lb:/cy/
what about: /cr,djin./? But maybe the same problem with *both*
consonants being syllabic!
My last idea is: /cyr,djin./ (not too bad for not being mixed up with
/she=cy/ - but in real pronunciation there is no /y/ at all. 
The Croatians BTW write /trg/=lb: zarci, the Romanians /t&acirc;rgu/
- it's about the same non- or semivowel.

And problems are still going on: py: ri4 (sun/day), W.-G.: jih4???
and py: er4 (two) W.-G.: erh4 etc. (the latter could be /yr/, 
but the other one just /r/ :( - e.g. py: riben=Japan, W.-G.: jih-pen,
lb: /r,byn/

co'o mi'e .aulun.