From robin@BILKENT.EDU.TR Tue Jun 06 09:06:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7904 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2000 16:05:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jun 2000 16:05:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr) (139.179.10.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2000 16:05:10 -0000 Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (IDENT:robin@fast3.fen.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.97.28]) by firat.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e56G7cC20831 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:07:38 +0300 (EET DST) Sender: robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR Message-ID: <393D20A9.B1A44400@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 19:02:49 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Chinese names References: <39344693.6DC772E4@bilkent.edu.tr> <4.2.2.20000601145631.00a2bf00@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robin The discussion of standardisation also has a bearing on the concept of a cmene itself, I think. The whole point of a cmene, as I see it, is that it is an arbitrary label, and thus can be anything you like, so long as it conforms to the rules of Lojban morphology (zo'o not that mine always do). To talk of a standard form for cmene seems contradictory. OK, I know that the first of my Lojban lessons has instructions on how to Lojbanise proper names, but this is simply an aid to (a) understanding Lojban phonology and (b) assist people who want to make cmene which bear some relation to the soundof the name they derive from, which most of the time is what we want. However, this does not detract from the essentially arbitrary nature of cmene. If Bob wants to refer to himself as "lojbab." because his dialect pronounces "Bob" something like UK English "barb", that's his privelege, but he could equally well cmenify "Bob" as "glurp." or something. "la bab." does _not_ mean "a member of the set of entities whose native-language names are pronounced similarly to Lojban 'bab'." co'o mi'e robin.