From iad@MATH.BAS.BG Tue Jun 13 08:31:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16831 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2000 15:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Jun 2000 15:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO argo.bas.bg) (195.96.224.7) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2000 15:30:41 -0000 Received: from banmatpc.math.bas.bg (root@banmatpc.math.bas.bg [195.96.243.2]) by argo.bas.bg (8.11.0.Beta1/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) with ESMTP id e5DFUPk01704 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:30:25 +0300 Received: from iad.math.bas.bg (iad.math.bas.bg [195.96.243.88]) by banmatpc.math.bas.bg (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28170 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:30:23 +0300 Message-ID: <394653C3.70DC@math.bas.bg> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:31:15 +0300 Reply-To: iad@math.bas.bg Organization: Institute for Mathematics and Computer Science X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Lojban List Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lujvo References: <4.2.2.20000613034311.00b3d220@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ivan A Derzhanski Bob LeChevalier (lojbab) wrote: > There is a direct Lojban equivalent to Italian "Madonna = my lady" > in terms of etymology of the tanru - I would make it "mibni'u", What?! {mibni'u} < {mi ninmu} means `my woman', not `my lady'. > or if you want the connotations of mistress of higher class, > you could insert "nol" as a modifier for nobility (mibnolni'u), > ces for holy (mibycesni'u), or selse'u for one who is served. Getting progressively closer, but still not there. I quote what I think are the relevant meanings from Merriam-Webster: `a woman having proprietary rights or authority especially as a feudal superior'; `a woman of superior social position'. > But in Lojban, none of these would have the Italian MEANING of "Madonna" > because Lojban tanru have all manner of interpretations, and lujvo > select a single ad hoc one of these, but are not necessarily a part > of the lexicon unless picked up by the speaking community (and/or > enshrined in the dictionary). Indeed. {cevni mamta} `god mother' invites at least two obvious interpretations: `mother who is a goddess' (Thetis) and `mother of a god' (Alcmene). > We ARE trying for a culturally neutral; language, so if I wanted > a word for the mother of Christ, I would NOT use "cevni", I would > use "xriso" as the basis for the lujvo. I would use both: {xriso cevni mamta}. `Christian mother' is just not enough. But why use a lujvo/tanru anyway? Why not a cmene? It is the name of one particular character, isn't it? --Ivan