Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: lujvo

From: Jim Carter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:15:17 -0700 (PDT)

"Reality is the refuge for those who can't handle drugs" :-)

Would you believe two million words of predications about arguments (sumti)
whose referents don't exist, and whose whole purpose is to not exist? I'm
referring to works of fiction. Also planning documents for unapproved
projects (snowballs in hell), worst case scenarios, etc. etc.

I'll bet that more (written) predications involve nonexistent referents
than existing ones. If embellishment, as in gossip, removes the
embellished referent from existence in reality, then the above restriction
to written predication can be dropped.

Perhaps we should avoid saying ``when you make a predication about a
referent you implicitly assert that it exists in reality''. Instead we
should say ``when you make a predication you assume, and attach to the text
by reference, a context or mythos in which the referent is to be treated as
existing''. Everybody knows that the mythos is purely for fun, or wishful
thinking, or drug-induced hallucination, but to make our conventional form
of communication (by predication) function, we have to act as though the
fantasy is real. We suspend disbelief; otherwise we're spoilsports or
logic-chopping philosophers.

And who knows, by lifting our gaze out of the mud we might bring something
good into ``real'' reality.

James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897	FAX 310 206 6673
UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555
Internet: [email-masked] (finger for PGP key)
UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc

On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, John Cowan wrote:

> Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> 
> > I would have read "lo
> > [dragon] klama" as ipmyling something like "Some dragons, oh, by the
> > way, dragons really exist, go", which is apparently wrong. So I take it
> > all back. :)
> 
> The problem with that is the notion "really exist". As Ray Smullyan says,
> you can no more examine a chair and tell if it is "real" than you can examine
> a window and tell if it is going to be broken in a few hours. Reality is
> the dream-state we don't wake up from (except perhaps when we are dead,
> who knows).
> 
> But yes, predicating something about dragons implicitly asserts that there
> are dragons to predicate about.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Schlingt dreifach einen Kreis um dies! || John Cowan <[email-masked]>
> Schliesst euer Aug vor heiliger Schau, || http://www.reutershealth.com
> Denn er genoss vom Honig-Tau, || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
> Und trank die Milch vom Paradies. -- Coleridge (tr. Politzer)
> 
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