Subject: Re: [lojban] containers

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:08:16 EDT

In a message dated 00-06-15 11:24:14 EDT, evgenis writes:
<< wonder if this difference in wording (for/of/with/containig) is 
deliberate 
and serves to convey different meanings. Are we speaking in case of bottle
(botpi) only of the bottle itself, and of only potential contents? How do we 
say then "a bottle of wine"? 

Respectively, when we use "bucket" (baktu) are we speaking about an amount of
water contained in a bucket? How can we then refer to an empty bucket?

I would prefer to have a uniform place structure for all kinds of containers.
It is rather difficult to memorize the distibution of "for/of/with". >>

Another good one! In all these cases, the predicate describes the object as 
such, not as a
measuring unit (pe'i, if you're checking). Most of the "for" cases are for 
things that have
different shapes or sizes depending upon probable contents (bottle, drawer, 
box, pot). For
the others I have no good stories about the different prepositions (including 
none at all for "with"). It does not help matters that the typical contents 
of many of these containers are things that in Lojban have the "a quantity 
of..." definition, i.e., English mass nouns that beg for a container or other 
quantized. I would take all of the words in question to mean "containing 
...". The various kinds of bottles, say, can best be handled by tanru rather 
than sumti place:{djino batpi} by its shape, but {batpi lo djino} in use.