From jjllambias@hotmail.com Thu Jun 29 16:45:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30782 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2000 23:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 29 Jun 2000 23:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.203) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Jun 2000 23:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 20390 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jun 2000 23:17:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20000629231728.20389.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.152.141 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:17:28 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.152.141] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:17:28 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: "Jorge Llambias" la pier cusku di'e >If I go from Raleigh to Pineville, but my car breaks down in High Point, do >I >say "mi za'onai klama", or is there a word for this? Another of Lojban's outstanding difficulties (at least for me). We have a word for "still" (za'o), but none for its three companions: "already", "no longer" and "not yet". In other languages these four are a bit more regular than in English, and it is more evident that: still not = not yet already not = no longer no longer not = already not already not = still and so on. In principle, we can derive all four from any one of them plus negation, so {za'o} should be enough: za'o = still za'o na = still not = not yet na za'o = "not still" = no longer na za'o na = no longer not = already But it would have been nice to have another simple word at least for "already". I was tempted for my botpi example to use: {ti na za'o botpi} to mean "this no longer botttles [any wine]", but I didn't want to confuse the issue even further. It's nice that you brought up the issue though. I don't know whether {za'onai} is {na za'o}, as you propose, or {za'o na}, or something else. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com