From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Fri Jun 30 01:01:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13114 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2000 08:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jun 2000 08:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Jun 2000 08:01:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.10.119] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2000 08:01:50 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:01:42 -0000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: PLEA: Chinese names Message-ID: <8jhk56+b97f@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <395B50D7.7249@math.bas.bg> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1423 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfred_W._Tueting_(T=FCting)?=" --- In lojban@egroups.com, Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > Alfred W. Tueting (T=FCting) wrote: > > --- In lojban@egroups.com, Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > > > Using /r/ doesn't seem to be a good idea, because syllabic > > > (retroflex) /r/ does exist in Mandarin -- _shi_ and _shir_ > > > are different syllables (and _shi_ is different from _she_, > > > although _shir_ and _sher_ sound the same). > [...] > > _shir_ doesn't seem to exist (it's py: shi /cr/); sher is py: > > she-er /cy,r/ (/cy/+/yr/) > > > (3) The addition of the suffix _er_ to _she_ and _shi_ yields > respectively _sher_ and _shir_, which though distinguished in > writing are pronounced the same, and though written as two > characters are pronounced as a single syllable, whose coda > (alias final) sounds as [@r.]. > > So that's three different (sequences of) sounds to handle. > > What of all this do you say isn't true? > > I suppose it would be possible to lojbanise _shi_ as {cr} > if _she_ is {cy} and _shir_=3D_sher_ is {cyr}. Agreed with almost all, yet I don't think that a word py: 'shi' /cr/ is *suffixed* with py: 'er' /yr/ yielding something like 'shir'. In those cases the suffix is py: 'zi'. E.g. py: 'shizi' lion BIG5 =B7=E0=A4l /cr,dz/ (sher - 'little tongue' BIG5 =A6=DE=A8=E0 is okay though). Whereas shi and er (unsuffixed) works, like in 'shi er' /cr yr/ e.g. 'is a child' etc. BIG5 =ACO=A8=E0 .aulun.