From lojbab@lojban.org Fri Jun 30 08:46:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3333 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2000 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jun 2000 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-4.cais.net) (205.252.14.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Jun 2000 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from bob (65.dynamic.cais.com [207.226.56.65]) by stmpy-4.cais.net (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e5UFkDf60215 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:46:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lojbab@lojban.org) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000630113305.00b244c0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:46:40 -0400 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: gismu list problems (was Re: [lojban] Digest Number 497) In-Reply-To: <20000630144720.48268.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 07:47 AM 06/30/2000 -0700, michael helsem wrote: > >From: Elrond > li'o > >I have thought many times I should note every such "mistake" I find > > > >zo mufsre nordra (Not "mistake", exactly.) .iku'i mi facki lenu >so'ole se gismu valsi pamei cu tcica milxe (But some of the gismu keywords >do seem a bit misleading.) .i di'e mibypre nalmulno liste (This is my >incomplete list.) .itu'e mezoi gy. The choice of gismu keywords had many criteria, and being misleading was not always the highest. 1. No duplicates allowed. 2. Preference given for the word used in making the gismu, even if the place structure might make this word clumsy (or appropriate to one of the non x1 places - see dunku, cnemu below). In some cases, I believe the x1/x2 switch took place after the list of keywords was established. 3. Many English words have meaning as both nouns and verbs or other polysemy, and we tried to be careful with these, especially when they might give very misleading ideas of the meaning - see cinmo below: I associate "feel" with the sense of touch more than with emotions 4. Brevity - the keywords were created for LogFlash, and people using Logflash have to type them many times, the passive "is ---ed" adds 4 characters and little information other than the place structure order. In some cases, when the keyword approached the 20 character maximum, 4 unnecessary characters would be too much. >CFARI 'initiate', better 'commences' >CINMO 'emotion', better 'feels' >CNEMU 'reward', better 'awards' >CORTU 'pain', better 'hurts' or 'suffers' >DANRE 'pressure', better 'presses' >DUNKU 'anguish', better 'is anguished' >JGIRA 'pride', better 'is proud' >MIPRI 'secret', better 'conceals' >SENVA 'dream', better 'dreamer' >SISTI 'cease', better 'halts' >SLABU 'old', better 'familiar' >VOFLI 'flight', better 'flies' Of course, among these, slabu has actually evolved in meaning. At the time the list was made, we believed that we could reconcile "familiar" and "not-young" in a single concept using the specified place structure and appropriate sumti. People have chosen to prefer to'ercitno for not-young such that it has largely evolved out of the semantic range for slabu, except possibly as a poetic metaphor. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org