From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Jun 30 16:17:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25107 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.96) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 95529 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jun 2000 23:17:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20000630231727.95528.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.153.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:17:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.153.116] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:17:27 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: "Jorge Llambias" la pier cusku di'e >"still" isn't "za'o", it's "pujeca". These have been proposed before: still: pujeca no longer: pujecanai already: punaijeca not yet: punaijecanai But to me they miss the most fundamental component of these words, the "beyond expectation" part. These should not be mere time tenses, and besides they can also be used with past or future (still was, already will be, no longer will be, wasn't yet, etc) which become very inconvenient (pupunaijepucanai?). >"za'o" means that an action continues >after it's completed, not that it is still going on. "still" certainly has a component of "beyond expectation", and the expectation is completion for actions that could be completed. Maybe {za'o} won't do for every single case of "still", but mostly it sure does. This beyond expectation component of "still" is used in English also for non-temporal situations, like "those who take the greatest care still make mistakes" or "a still more difficult problem". >I can be in High Point, >with my car still running, and be still on my way to Pineville even though >mi >na za'o klama py. Why would you say that you were still on your way, if there was no expectation that you should no longer be on your way? co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com