From lojbab@lojban.org Sat Jul 01 04:23:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25674 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 11:23:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jul 2000 11:23:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO stmpy-4.cais.net) (205.252.14.74) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 11:23:10 -0000 Received: from bob (33.dynamic.cais.com [207.226.56.33]) by stmpy-4.cais.net (8.10.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id e61BN7410813 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:23:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lojbab@lojban.org) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000701071305.00b33770@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: vir1036/pop.cais.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:23:38 -0400 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o In-Reply-To: <20000630231727.95528.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From: "Bob LeChevalier (lojbab)" At 04:17 PM 06/30/2000 -0700, Jorge Llambias wrote: >la pier cusku di'e > >"still" isn't "za'o", it's "pujeca". >These have been proposed before: > >still: pujeca >no longer: pujecanai >already: punaijeca >not yet: punaijecanai > >But to me they miss the most fundamental component of >these words, the "beyond expectation" part. Which is attitudinal, probably something like .uero'e Expectation is, it seems to me, inherently attitudinal on the part of the speaker. The statement that you make using "still" in English, if another person were not equally surprised at the situation, would indeed be conveyed using "pujeca". za'o seems to fit because our concept of "beyond the natural end of the event" translates well to "beyond expected end". At one stage, we had compound ZAhOs and they could probably handle the others cases above. If za'o indeed implies a "beyond expectation", then "not yet" is the za'o of the ba'o. These compounds are probably still possible, possibly requiring some extra words in between, but are no longer built into the grammar as an iterative structure. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org