From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Jul 03 16:20:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7941 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2000 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jul 2000 23:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.238) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jul 2000 23:20:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 99788 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jul 2000 23:20:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20000703232055.99787.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.154.121 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jul 2000 16:20:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.154.121] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] RE: Opposite of za'o Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 16:20:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: "Jorge Llambias" la pycyn cusku di'e >But an achievement is the paradigm change of state - from not to so: >winning >(or coming in last for that matter), being born, getting elected, etc. Sorry, I didn't mean change of state. I meant change of action status, from happening to not happening, or from not happening to happening. Not a change of one of the arguments but of the relationship between the arguments. I know some verbs are classified as achievements because they refer to the change of state of something, but is that really what {co'i} is? Does it refer to what happens to the x1 argument, or is it simply that the whole event is taken as a point event, whatever type of event it is? That is what I recall as the official explication, although I never felt very comfortable with {co'i}. I don't think I have ever used it. >But, if these premature and postsenile cases are to be allowed at all, we >can >-- and must -- be able to talk about the natural ending and starting even >if >it does not occur, else there can be no talk of unnatural ones. They may >be >fuzzy, but there is still a line. Ok. {co'a za'o} is the start of the unnatural extension, and therefore it is the not occurring natural ending. If we had the mirror of za'o, {co'u XXX} (or {mo'u XXX)) would be the end of the advanced occurring, and therefore the not occurring natural start. But it is hard for me to find a use for them. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com