From jjllambias@hotmail.com Thu Jul 06 17:48:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30175 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2000 00:48:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jul 2000 00:48:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.63) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jul 2000 00:48:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 34365 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jul 2000 00:48:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20000707004806.34364.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.154.3 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:48:06 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.154.3] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:48:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: "Jorge Llambias" la ivAn cusku di'e >Jorge Llambias wrote: > > If we can make a distinction between "event discontinues process" > > and a "process brings forth event", I don't see why we can't > > distinguish "event brings forth process" from "process leaves > > event behind", distinguishing a mere circumstantial start from > > an actual birth or origination. > >But that would involve no causality, merely the coincidence >of two times (of the event and of the start of the process), >because a process can't cause something except by having gone >on for a while, and that is already covered by {mo'u}. Not physical causality, of course, but what gets called the origin or initiation may be a consequence of the process occurring, i.e. we could not talk of there having been a begining unless the process has been going on for a while. This is really the only sense in which a process "brings forth" the culmination event anyway, isn't it? >Which may imply that {co'a} is {za'o}'s mirror, in the sense >of being the symmetrically allocated item in the sequence >{pu'o -- co'a -- ca'o -- mu'o -- za'o -- co'u -- ba'o}. I suppose you meant {ca'o} as {za'o}'s mirror. Only if we place the mirror at {mu'o}. But if we placed it at {ca'o} (I think a more natural placing), we have: pu'o - co'a - xxx - xxx - ca'o - mu'o - za'o - co'u - ba'o where the xxx's are the mirror images of {za'o} and {mu'o}. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com