From a.rosta@dtn.ntl.com Sat Jul 08 20:43:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1570 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2000 03:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Jul 2000 03:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO relay3-gui.server.ntli.net) (194.168.4.200) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Jul 2000 03:43:07 -0000 Received: from m8-mp1-cvx1c.gui.ntl.com ([62.252.12.8] helo=andrew) by relay3-gui.server.ntli.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #2) id 13B7qf-0000ig-00 for lojban@egroups.com; Sun, 09 Jul 2000 04:33:42 +0100 To: Subject: RE: [lojban] A defense of dead horse beating Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 04:42:56 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000707021222.79517.qmail@hotmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" Jorge: > la and cusku di'e > >Jorge: > > > As an example, I > > > still haven't been able to figure out a comfortable way > > > of saying "even", as in "even the cat wants to go". > > > >How random is that example? > > I don't know, I think it and "already" are the ones I > have had most difficulty with, and they are indeed very > much related. What do you think of {ji'acai}, an extreme > "also", for "even"? I think it's a good practical rough-and-ready equivalent. _Even_ has been quite intensively studied, e.g. in a nice article by Paul Kay in _Linguistics & Philosophy_ from (I think) some time in the early 90s, & would be very cumbersome to translate in a non-rough-and-ready way into Lojban. > >If pc is going to make a RECORD of this, may I remind the > >community of my formulation: > > > > lo broda = da poi broda > > le broda = ko'a voi broda > > > >I think this neatly encapsulates the facts and could save > >a deal of exposition. > > Yes, it is a nice encapsulation.. > > >There are no gadri for "da voi" or "ko'a poi", but they > >complete the paradigm. > > But they are simple enough to get: > > su'o le broda = da voi broda > ro lo broda = ko'a poi broda Hold on, though. I can't think what use {da voi broda} would be, but surely it's not the same as {su'o le broda}, because the latter entails that there is a referent for {le broda}. And isn't {ro lo broda} merely the same as {lo broda}? -- There is no specificity, unlike in {ko'a poi broda}. You can't have meant what you typed. Probably you meant: le ro lo broda = ko'a poi broda I still don't see a gadri-based way of getting (the admittedly useless) {da voi broda}, though, which, after all, is not a bad thing. --And.