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Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 10:30:26 -0000
To: lojban@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Tashunkekokipapi - Man-afraid-of his-horses
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From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfred_W._Tueting_(T=FCting)?=" <Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de>

--- In lojban@egroups.com, "michael helsem" <graywyvern@h...> wrote:
> >From: "Alfred W. Tueting (T=FCting)" <Ti@f...>

> >6.10) mi viska la nanmu poi (ke'a) terpa le ke'a xirma [ku]
> 
> That actually means, "I see Man Whose Horse Is Feared". (It
> needs another "fake'a" in there somewhere.)

No, I think the grammar's above example tries to express "I see
Man-Who-is-Afraid-of-His-Horse(s) (i.e. Tasunkekokipapi)", 
yet this is not the real meaning of the historical names "Man-afraid
-of-his-horses" and "Young-man-afraid-of-his-horses".
So, I'm trying to translate the name's very meaning into Lojban -
though restricted to my still poor Lojbanic skills :( by:

"mi viska la nanmu poi le ke'a xirma (ku) se terpa (le bradi)"

following the pattern: x1 is afraid by x2 or x2 se terpa x1

or: "mi viska la nanmu poi le xirma po ke'a .ue (cu) se terpa (le
ke'a bradi)(ku'i)(vau)"
(i.e. "man-whose-enemies-are-even/already-frighten
ed/terrorized-seeing-his-horses"

So, the grammar book's above example *grammatically* is okay (and I
never dared to criticize this!), but - like very often - the 
famous proper name's meaning is given erroneously and hence should be
altered.

What I also wanted to know was whether the construction "la poi..."
instead e.g. "la nanmu poi...") is allowed! In English an article is 
not allowed standing isolated, e.g. the one(!) who..., what's
different in German, so the following sentence is grammatically
correct: 
"Die, die die, die die Verkehrszeichen abmontierte haben, bei der
Polizei melden, werden belohnt!"

co'o mi'e .aulun.