From jjllambias@hotmail.com Wed Jul 12 17:10:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19986 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.193) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 8454 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jul 2000 00:10:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20000713001013.8453.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.154.196 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.154.196] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: `even' (Re: [lojban] Re: Tashunkekokipapi) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: "Jorge Llambias" la aulun cusku di'e >Although I like /ji'acai/, I still feel that surprise somehow is part >of "even". Yes, there is an element of surprise in the sense that any least likely candidate is the most surprising one. But in my opinion this is not {ue}-surprise, but something much more subtle. {ue} is all about the speaker, the speaker's reaction to what is being expressed. "Even" is about the marked sumti (or selbri) with respect to the other relevant candidates. With {ue} the speaker is showing how they are affected by what is being said. With "even" the speaker is not showing any emotional reaction, only a description of a situation. It is of course possible to combine both, but not necessary nor applicable in all cases. >I once thought of /.ueji'a/ or even /.ueji'acai/ I think {ji'a} definitely has to be the basis of "even". {ue} is clearly compatible with it, but it doesn't really add the notion of reaching to the limit. It has to do with the speaker's reaction and not with what the speaker is describing as such. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com