From iad@MATH.BAS.BG Sun Jul 16 12:10:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22830 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2000 19:10:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jul 2000 19:10:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lnd.internet-bg.net) (212.124.64.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jul 2000 19:10:18 -0000 Received: from math.bas.bg (ppp108.internet-bg.net [212.124.66.108]) by lnd.internet-bg.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA11151 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:15:08 +0300 Message-ID: <397204A7.EE564A82@math.bas.bg> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:53:27 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: `even' (Re: [lojban] Re: Tashunkekokipapi) References: <8kij16+jpv0@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Ivan A Derzhanski "Alfred W. Tueting (Tüting)" wrote: > --- In lojban@egroups.com, "Jorge Llambias" wrote: > > In all cases, "even" means that John was the least likely > > to be expected to come, but he did anyway. The accompanying > > emotion (surprise, happiness, pity) is independent of "even". > > Although I like /ji'acai/, I still feel that surprise somehow > is part of "even". Maybe there's no real need to express this > in a Lojban word (as it isn't verbally expressed in any language > I'm familiar with - but it's in my mind anyway! [...]) Well, `even' does imply that whatever it accompanies is the most unlikely end of some scale (among a number of things associated with one, one's horse is the least likely to frighten people), and being extremal is uncommon, of course, hence potentially surprising to someone -- but not necessarily to the speaker. Jorge's {ji'acai} `very also (?)' is strange, but looks as though it may work. I'm inclined to like it because it resembles Russian _dazhe_ `even', which is not synchronically analysable, but consists of _da_ `and, also' + the emphatic particle _zhe_. --Ivan