From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Sun Jul 16 13:18:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31343 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2000 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m1.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jul 2000 20:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jul 2000 20:18:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.10.116] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Jul 2000 20:18:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:18:39 -0000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Again: le se gerku zi'o Message-ID: <8kt5av+dg67@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1675 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfred_W._Tueting_(T=FCting)?=" I remember an illustrated volume on saurians with all the different types listed and thoroughly designed in detail: We can say that the saurians once had lived on our globe a long, long time ago, that they're extinct since then and - it is most probable they're never to come again. Now let us find a Lojban word for them, say, the lujvo brabrarespa? from: respa res reptile x1 is a reptile of species/breed x2 brabrarespa: barda+barda+respa saurian x1 is a saurian of species/breed x2 and hence: se brabrarespa or selbrabrarespa! There indeed is no (at least 'potential') brabrarespa, but (see above) scientific volumes filled with descriptions, classifications, genetics etc.: there indeed must be a Lojban word like /se brabrarespa (zi'o???)/ to mirror our present world! Language in the first place is subordinate to reality (though maybe sometimes also can influence the world around us through its speakers perception). I'd imagine zi'oing out the 2nd place in fact is *not* necessary if the x1 place's "potentiality" is not only directed into the future, but also into the past! I must admit that it is hard to think of dog breeds with dogs that never existed, do not exist now and never will be in all future. Is it enough for the mentioned "potentiality" that something only exists in human imagination? zi'oing out the dogs, logically could mean that they don't even exist in our minds - and that is *not* allowed! So my conclusion is that it must be allowed by logic to use, say, selbrabrarespa (without any zi'o!) for things only existing in our minds, because a breed of *unthinkable* creatures (se C zi'o) is illogical! co'o mi'e .aulun.