From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Jul 17 16:38:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26399 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2000 23:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Jul 2000 23:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.161) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jul 2000 23:38:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 54998 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jul 2000 23:38:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20000717233824.54997.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.42.154.71 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:38:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.154.71] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: RE: [lojban] Opposite of za'o Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:38:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed From: "Jorge Llambias" la and cusku di'e >We've already agreed that >"still" could be rendered by a brivla, so this discussion >is about whether you can say what you want using ZAhO. I agreed {stali} was a pretty good brivla for "still". I haven't found a good one for "already" though. {tolstali}? {clira}? >If I >had my way then most redudant cmavo would be abolished, >though, including ZAhO. If I had mine I would abolish lots of selmaho too, but I don't think I would start with ZAhO. > > But za'o is permitted with non-telics too, so the > > generalization to "still" is the next step. > >I think {za'o broda} entails that broda is telic, just as {mo'u} >does. So if {broda} is not normally telic, the interpreter has >to seek an interpretation where broda is telic. In seeking that interpretation is that I usually run into "still". >You have this ideal conception of what Lojban ought to be like, >from a user's perspective, and struggle and struggle to find ways >to make Lojban yield some realization of this conception. To me, >Lojban is how it is, and you like it or lump it. To me Lojban will be what we make it. If you try to use it I think you have to realise that at least for now and in some sense Lojban still isn't. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com