From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Jul 28 15:22:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20571 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2000 22:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Jul 2000 22:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.127) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Jul 2000 22:22:35 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:22:35 -0700 Received: from 200.42.153.243 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.153.243] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] tertirxu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:22:35 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2000 22:22:35.0531 (UTC) FILETIME=[54998DB0:01BFF8E2] From: "Jorge Llambias" la kir cusku di'e >But {tertirxu} IS important! I an not a professional zoologist, so I can >easily fail to recognize between tigers, lions, lynxes etc... But, if I >see spots or stripes, it is "what I call {tirxu}". I am not saying stripes and spots are not important, but {tirxybarna} is perfectly good for that. What I don't get is why the relationship between the animals and their marks is so exotic for these particular animals that instead of having a regular animal place structure for them we get this complicated one. There are only two animals that got weird place structures. One is the tiger. Can anyone guess what the other is without looking it up? (Actually, there is a third animal with a different place structure, in this case with one place less instead of one more, but I think that one is easy to guess.) What I am finding difficult about Lojban is learning the right place structures. Any patterns that can be discovered are always full of exceptions, and the result is that I am usually not sure whether or not a given gismu has some mysterious trailing places that I am forgetting. For example, I had to check recently that {citka} had no third place, because even though I could not think of anything that could go there, I just wasn't sure. So even though I remember the gismu and its keyword, I'm still not confident that I know fully what the word means. If place structures were simpler and more regular this would not be such a problem. >In fact, [zo cmatirx. >cmene le mi mlatu .i mu'i bo ri skari le tertirxu]. Is {ri skari le tertirxu} very different from {ri skari le tirxu} or better {ri skari lo'e tirxu}? co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com