From jjllambias@hotmail.com Mon Jul 31 16:36:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18502 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2000 23:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jul 2000 23:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.148) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2000 23:36:21 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:36:21 -0700 Received: from 200.42.118.142 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.42.118.142] To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Beyond Whorf: "things," "qualities," and the origin of nouns and adjectives Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:36:21 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2000 23:36:21.0307 (UTC) FILETIME=[21CEA0B0:01BFFB48] From: "Jorge Llambias" la tipitr park cusku di'e > All natural human languages that I know of [...] >have (1) lots and lots of words of the type "stick, stone, [...] >star", (2) lots and lots of words of the type "big, small, long, >[...] dry," and (3) and lots and lots of words of the type "eat, >drink, bite, [...] hear." This is true, as an empirical fact, of >English, German, [...] and Lojban. It is true of Lojban, although if we take place structures seriously in Lojban classes (1) and (2) are much smaller than in other languages, while most words fall in class (3). Only one-place predicates can be of classes (1) and (2). All others must be of class (3), because they don't refer to a property or bundle of properties but always to relationships. Thus the Lojban word {botpi} is not class (2) like the English word "bottle". It does not refer to the bundle of properties that make up a bottle, it refers to the relationship that exists between bundles of bottle properties and bundles of bottle contents properties. Similarly {barda} is not class (1) like "big". This may violate some universal that languages have lots and lots of words (maybe most) in classes (1) and (2), but at least as defined, most Lojban words are class (3): relationships. co'o mi'e xorxes ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com