From iad@MATH.BAS.BG Fri Aug 04 20:41:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18459 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2000 03:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Aug 2000 03:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lnd.internet-bg.net) (212.124.64.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2000 03:41:51 -0000 Received: from math.bas.bg (ppp104.internet-bg.net [212.124.66.104]) by lnd.internet-bg.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA16984 for ; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 06:50:43 +0300 Message-ID: <398B2908.8905DCD3@math.bas.bg> Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:35:20 +0300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Beyond Whorf: "things," "qualities," and the origin of nouns and adjectives References: <398AB43C.E236F869@math.bas.bg> <398ADEEC.A913BFDD@reutershealth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ivan A Derzhanski John Cowan wrote: > Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > > `Arthur was king at Camelot' is fine with or without `what was > > then called'; `Arthur was king at Winchester' seems to require > > `what is now called'. > > And yet "Elrond is lord of Imladris" and "Elrond is lord > of Rivendell" seem equally perspicuous, in a situation > explicitly declared by the author to be analogous. Analogous in some ways, to be sure, but perhaps not in others. _Rivendell_ is an English rendition of the Westron _Karningul_, which was used *at the same time* as the Sindarin _Imladris_. > [...] speaking of London, rather than Londinium, in Roman times > seems to be no problem either. But then those are simply the English and the Latin versions of the same name. One would be much less likely to refer to Constantinople in pre-Ottoman times as Istanbul, or to Akhenaten's capital, Akhetaten, as Tell-el-Amarna. --Ivan