From Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Sun Aug 06 03:01:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30490 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2000 10:01:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Aug 2000 10:01:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Aug 2000 10:01:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: Ti@fa-kuan.muc.de Received: from [10.1.10.126] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Aug 2000 10:01:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 10:01:37 -0000 To: lojban@egroups.com Subject: Re: Beyond Whorf: "things," "qualities," and the origin of nouns and adjectives Message-ID: <8mjd21+12ue@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <398CF142.507AAB33@math.bas.bg> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1971 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.149.49.79 From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Alfred_W._Tueting_(T=FCting)?=" --- In lojban@egroups.com, Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > {meili} sounds more beautiful to me than {melbi}, (...) Indeed. also to me. > > You might most probably be right: the "inner"(?) semantics > > of "girl" causes one to have the impression of "female-young- > > beautiful-..." >=20 > No, that's not what I'm referring to at all. I'm not implying > any correlation between the two concepts, taken literally, > typically or stereotypically. What I'm trying to say is that > the mind apparently sees beautiful girls, plain girls and > ugly girls as more fundamentally similar than beautiful girls, > beautiful arrangements of plastic coffee cups and beautiful > proofs of mathematical theorems. Oh, yeah - maybe this is the special impact of the (more) concrete vs. the (more) 'abstract' (a beautiful girl is much more a girl=20 than beautiful, a big house much more a house than big). >=20 > > (all in all, a pretty pleasant bundle - with "beautiful" being > > a bundle itself for "fair-blue-eyed-smiling-slender-..."). >=20 > As in "Az a sz=E9p, / akinek a szeme k=E9k"? Pretty deep insights! What an impressive "bundle" - do you also hear the melody? (The 'picture' of the blue-eyed beauty seems=20 stronger than that of the dark-eyed - "...akinek a szeme fekete" - because of syntactically coming first in order?) > Which certainly is {melxli}. But: _sz=E9p_ used as a noun is also > {melxli}, or in any case {melni'u}. The same is true of Turkish > _g=FCzel_; but certainly not of {lo melbi}. Hungarian "a sz=E9p" first of all seems to refer to /le melni'u/, but different to German ("die Sch=F6ne"), it's ambiguous, also having=20 the meaning of German: "das Sch=F6ne (in unserem Leben/in unserer Beziehung)": "a sz=E9p (az =E9let=FCnkben/a mi=20 =F6sszek=F6ttet=E9s=FCnkben)" or "az (=E9let=FCnkben val=F3) sz=E9p" etc.. I'm not too sure if /lo melbi/ also has this semantics (le mi'o selji'efri=20 ne'i lo melbi??? - lo mi'o terckinyne'i melbi???) .aulun.