From pycyn@aol.com Sun Aug 20 13:58:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1349 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2000 20:58:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Aug 2000 20:58:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Aug 2000 20:58:33 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.12.) id a.c.9a1836b (3986) for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 16:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 16:58:30 EDT Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Careful with noi! To: lojban@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 From: pycyn@aol.com In a message dated 00-08-20 13:04:16 EDT, taral writes: << I have noted that the classic "empty bottle" (e.g. the mountain dew bottle next to me) is still a /botpi/, since it contains air, or pseudo-"emptiness", since "nothing" has the additional meaning (in english) of "of no consequence, significance, or interest" -- basically zo'e. I think most people would not call air a "thing". Does air qualify for /da/? If so, we need something like "zo'e" which means not "something obvious or irrelevant" but that "nothing" which English uses. >> The problem is really about a genuine (or at least a stated) nothing. Air does count as a something, a replacement for {da}. But I think that it does count as obvious or irrelevant for the usual purposes, so nothing new is needed. For that matter, as noted, {no da} works practically, if not literally. <> It would be equally good -- and clearer -- to say {botpi tarmi} or some such. And the content place may still be useful, since a Riesling bottle is a very different shape from a Coke bottle, say.