From mark@kli.org Wed Aug 30 09:05:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18200 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2000 15:54:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m4.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Aug 2000 15:54:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pi.meson.org) (209.191.39.185) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 15:54:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 8514 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Aug 2000 15:50:40 -0000 Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:50:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20000830155040.8513.qmail@pi.meson.org> To: lojban@egroups.com In-reply-to: <39ACB7D3.3DE9@math.bas.bg> (message from Ivan A Derzhanski on Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:29:23 +0300) Subject: Re: [lojban] World-historical and religious figures in Lojban References: <39A8CF80.BF94A9F@math.bas.bg> <0008271724250C.14222@neofelis> <39AA0F61.66DB@math.bas.bg> <20000828155044.5928.qmail@pi.meson.org> <39ACB7D3.3DE9@math.bas.bg> From: "Mark E. Shoulson" >Organization: Institute for Mathematics and Computer Science >From: Ivan A Derzhanski >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:29:23 +0300 > >Mark E. Shoulson wrote: >> >From: Ivan A Derzhanski >> >Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >> but how would you Lojbanize names like Tlaxcala? >> > >> >Perhaps {tackalad.}, since Nahuatl _tl_ is from _t_ that became >> >lateralised in certain positions? Or {.ytlackalad.}, applying >> >the tried Arabic method of handling initial consonant clusters? >> >> *baps Ivan on the head with a rolled-up ju'i lobypli* >> >> Watch your {la} in cmene!! > >A JL is nothing; what I'm feeling like banging myself on the head with >for rising to the bait in the first place would be nothing less than a >rolled-up Woldemar Codex. I knew that there was yet another reason >for my profound aversion to cmene; thanks for reminding me what it is. > >Make mine {la'o ny. Tlaxcala ny.}; I'll have nothing else. >And while we're at it, may I seize this opportunity to appeal >to the person who will launch the next logical language project >(if he is reading this now, which is likely if history is any >guide) to please try to avoid committing the egregious error >of choosing a sound sequence that is very common across nearly >all human languages (Japanese, Maori and Nootka being in a tight >minority) for a tag that can't appear inside cmene? Surely if >what is now {la} were, say, {jo'e}, the need to mutilate names >so that they won't contain it would occur much less often. I've said it before: we should probably just do away with *all* the restrictions in cmene (except maybe for the illegal medials) at the cost of requiring a pause after la/lai/doi. It looks like we tried to make the trade in one direction and it failed: nobody can remember the restrictions. It'd be easier to learn that the word {la} was pronounced /la?/, with a glottal stop at the end (mutatis mutandis for lai and doi) and leave it at that. But it's too entrenched by now. ~mark