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Date: 1 Sep 2000 20:45:00 -0000
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In-reply-to: <0009011404290G.05372@neofelis> (message from Pierre Abbat on Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:02:09 -0400)
Subject: Re: [lojban] How many?
References: <0009011404290G.05372@neofelis>
From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <mark@kli.org>

>From: Pierre Abbat <phma@oltronics.net>
>Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:02:09 -0400
>
>
>If "How old are you" is {do nanca li xo}, would "how many species of fish are
>there" be {ta finpe li xo} or {ta finpe xo da}?

No... {ta finpe li xo} means "What number is the fish-species of that
thing?" ... or something like that; it doesn't make sense, so it's hard to
translate. The x2 place of finpe isn't meant for a number.

The second attempt makes more sense, but doesn't mean what you want. It
means "that/those thing/things is a fish of how many species?" Come to
think of it, it IS a little close to what you're after, but only in a
restricted context: I could point to a big pile of fish and ask how many
species it contained that way, I *think*.

The reason why {do nanca li xo} works is because the x2 place of {nanca}
expects a *number*, defining the duration. Look at the definition of
{nanca}:

nanca: x1 is x2 years in duration (default is 1 year) by standard x3; 

So x1 is some event, and x2 is the number of years. {nanca} expresses the
relationship between an event and its number-of-years-of-duration (and a
standard for measuring words, but we're not worried about that right now).

finpe, on the other hand, looks like:

finpe: x1 is a fish of species x2 

It's a relationship between something(s) and its species-as-a-fish.
(Obviously, a dog's species-as-a-fish doesn't make sense, so dogs wouldn't
be in the x1 place of {finpe}, unless negated or something). "The number
how-many" isn't a species of fish (though it IS a number, so it works for
{nanca}), and thus doesn't make sense in the x2. {xo da}, meaning "How
many somethings" IS a species of fish, or rather could be bound to some
number of them (they're "somethings"). So {ta finpe xo da} makes sense,
but doesn't mean what you want.

The trouble is that {ta} refers to some *particular* thing/s you're
indicating in some way, not "all the ones out there."

For "how many fish are there?" Mmm... How about:

lo'i se finpe cu xomei

~mark