From mark@kli.org Fri Sep 01 13:49:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8102 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2000 20:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m2.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Sep 2000 20:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pi.meson.org) (209.191.39.185) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Sep 2000 20:49:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 11564 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Sep 2000 20:45:00 -0000 Date: 1 Sep 2000 20:45:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20000901204500.11563.qmail@pi.meson.org> To: lojban@egroups.com In-reply-to: <0009011404290G.05372@neofelis> (message from Pierre Abbat on Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:02:09 -0400) Subject: Re: [lojban] How many? References: <0009011404290G.05372@neofelis> From: "Mark E. Shoulson" >From: Pierre Abbat >Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:02:09 -0400 > > >If "How old are you" is {do nanca li xo}, would "how many species of fish are >there" be {ta finpe li xo} or {ta finpe xo da}? No... {ta finpe li xo} means "What number is the fish-species of that thing?" ... or something like that; it doesn't make sense, so it's hard to translate. The x2 place of finpe isn't meant for a number. The second attempt makes more sense, but doesn't mean what you want. It means "that/those thing/things is a fish of how many species?" Come to think of it, it IS a little close to what you're after, but only in a restricted context: I could point to a big pile of fish and ask how many species it contained that way, I *think*. The reason why {do nanca li xo} works is because the x2 place of {nanca} expects a *number*, defining the duration. Look at the definition of {nanca}: nanca: x1 is x2 years in duration (default is 1 year) by standard x3; So x1 is some event, and x2 is the number of years. {nanca} expresses the relationship between an event and its number-of-years-of-duration (and a standard for measuring words, but we're not worried about that right now). finpe, on the other hand, looks like: finpe: x1 is a fish of species x2 It's a relationship between something(s) and its species-as-a-fish. (Obviously, a dog's species-as-a-fish doesn't make sense, so dogs wouldn't be in the x1 place of {finpe}, unless negated or something). "The number how-many" isn't a species of fish (though it IS a number, so it works for {nanca}), and thus doesn't make sense in the x2. {xo da}, meaning "How many somethings" IS a species of fish, or rather could be bound to some number of them (they're "somethings"). So {ta finpe xo da} makes sense, but doesn't mean what you want. The trouble is that {ta} refers to some *particular* thing/s you're indicating in some way, not "all the ones out there." For "how many fish are there?" Mmm... How about: lo'i se finpe cu xomei ~mark