Subject: Re: [lojban] samselpla vs. samjva

From: "David Twery" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 06:19:57 -0400

----- Original Message -----
From: Taral <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, 03 September 2000 02:44

Perhaps a lujvo for "algorithm" is needed (e.g. "immaterial machine"),
and a "computer program" can be "skami <algorithm>".

How does that sound?

---

dbt:

The Big Question is probably: How many lujvo do we need for the field of
computer science?

Many!

For example -- a lot of people would argue that an algorithm is
"instantiated" as a program. Or some such. That there are different kinds of
programming that need lujvo. That there are probably different senses of
programming, computer and otherwise, that could benefit from lujvo.

My personal first take on the English word "program" was that there could be
non-computational programs, and that the use of "program" in computing came
about because the older meaning was close to what the early programmers
thought they were doing.

What I do when I make lujvo is to gather as many words together that
represent parts of the meaning -- kind of like working with a "semantic
cloud". From there, I pick out numerous tanru and make several lujvo. I
might eventually get several lujvo for the same word, but with different
senses, especially if I feel those are significant differences.

We should all make plenty of lujvo, assemble the place structures, and
propose them with maybe a few words of advocacy. Eventually, a subset of
these lujvo will find its way into "common" Lojbanic use. And if a bad lujvo
gets picked up, someone can invent a better one. As xod pointed out, there
are two schools of thought emerging on using "zmadu" in lujvo to indicate
augmentation. I think that issues like this will eventually become matters
of precision in expression and stylistics, once enough of us are using the
language at an expert level. Inelegant, clumsy, unpopular or outright bad
lujvo will not see much action beyond "nonce" use.

When you think about it, this is how neologisms come into the English
language. "Contraterrene" was the original word for anti-matter; then came
"mirror matter", and finally "anti-matter". In fifty years, the words
"nanotechnology", "meme", and "SETI" may sound quaint and old-fashioned.

The "mapping" between Lojban "lujvo space" and pre-existing words in other
languages, is likely to be many-to-many, not one-to-one.

Anyway ... wrapping it all up (and I do tend to become a bit unwrapped at
times) ... I think the best way is to make as many lujvo as possible without
being caught up in finding a "perfect word". Eventually (pretty fast, I
think), Lojban warps everybody's mind to begin to think in Lojbanic ways. At
all points, lujvo work is valuable.

--d