From pycyn@aol.com Sun Sep 10 17:14:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22658 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2000 00:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Sep 2000 00:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d07.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.39) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Sep 2000 00:14:24 -0000 Received: from Pycyn@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v28.15.) id a.b3.61695b (1782) for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:14:19 EDT Subject: Re: why no posts? III To: lojban@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 From: pycyn@aol.com While there are cmavo for converting (reference to) a number of individuals into (...) a mass or a set, and masses to set, and conversely all around, the relationships among these various entities remains controversial -- or rather, how to say what with them, or what some saying with them means does. Sets have little to do with their members except to specify a common property they possess and to count them up for a cardinal. Masses have properties that are the "sums" of the relevant properties of their members, but just what that means varies from predicate to predicate -- and perhaps from place to place around a predicate -- as the references are used as sumti. Even the default quantifiers are open to some question: there are many cases where, for example, {piro} seems the natural quantifier in oblique positions with {lo} -- even if only a part of a mass acts, the whole is acted upon (a small group stormed the Bastille but the whole people suffered the consequences). Sometimes. Probably a whole page of words newly coined, English expression not satisfactorily translated into lb, and lb words whose meanings are unclear could be added here, but I leave them for a later page.