From jcowan@reutershealth.com Wed Sep 13 08:41:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4521 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2000 15:41:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Sep 2000 15:41:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (204.243.9.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2000 15:41:30 -0000 Received: from reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[192.168.3.11]) by mail.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24400 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Sender: cowan@mail.reutershealth.com Message-ID: <39BFA01E.703829BD@reutershealth.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:41:18 -0400 Organization: Reuters Health Information X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lojban@onelist.com" Subject: Re: [lojban] ... and rape References: <20000912211446.26240.qmail@pi.meson.org> <39BF16D6.3202A19F@math.bas.bg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Cowan Ivan A Derzhanski wrote: > And whence does it follow that the said act does take place in spite > of x1's failure to permit it? The definition of {curmi} (`x1 (agent) > lets/permits/allows x2 (event) under conditions x3; x1 grants > privilege x2') makes it sound as though if the privilege is not > granted, the event doesn't happen. I think my use of bridi negation was erroneous. With polar negation, se tolcru gletu, we get "forbidden sex", and with a well-designed lujvo, we can equate c1 with g1, achieving "c1 forbids that c1=g1 copulates with g2". (I take it that gletu is symmetric, although that is not stated.) But I don't see the force of your argument about curmi: considered in isolation, it simply provides a property of events, that is, that they are authorized by x1. This is absolutely independent of the actuality of the event. An event may fail to occur even though permitted, and an event may occur even though forbidden; otherwise we would all be ants. -- There is / one art || John Cowan no more / no less || http://www.reutershealth.com to do / all things || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan with art- / lessness \\ -- Piet Hein